Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Ajax in Zope 3
Benji York wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: Myself I absolutely love the approach taken by CrackAjax (http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.php/phunt/2005/10/06/subway_s_new_ajax_framework) It's funny you mention that. I was intrigued by that too, but I can only characterize his implementation as a toy. :( I've been working on something similar but have tried to be a bit more "professional" about it (unit tests, trying to be a good designer, etc.). [snip] I consider this a mad scientist experiment, so I don't expect it to be officially included anywhere or even get any work from me once the novelty wears off. You are warned; I don't want angry villagers with pitchforks and torches coming to my castle. :) Another attempt to do something like this is the RPython->Javascript translator part of the PyPy project. RPython is the subset of Python that PyPy is developed in, and there's work on a translator being done by Eric van Riet Paap. The strength of the PyPy approach would be the strong foundation PyPy brings concerning language implementation and testing of such. The weakness, at least currently, I believe, is that it doesn't have a story yet for how to interface with the client-side APIs such as DOM. Definitely one to watch too. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Ajax in Zope 3
Tarek Ziadé wrote: Myself I absolutely love the approach taken by CrackAjax (http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.php/phunt/2005/10/06/subway_s_new_ajax_framework) I'm sure lots could be improved like improving python->javascript translation, allowing for explicit javascript when really needed, improving the testability, etc. Yes it needs inprovment indeed: the problem I had with this approach at this time is that the python written that is meant to be translated in js via an ast engine. it makes the Python code looks like pseudo-javascript. see in this example: http://svn.subway.python-hosting.com/crackajax/trunk/itunes.py the update_list() is using things like "document.getElementById()" and the 'document' variable is not existing at all in python side, if i get it right. Well of course, it's part of the client-side namespace. Testing would have to take that into account. I was wondering in fact what was the benefit of doing it, beside having a strong aversion of doing js coding (and that aversion can be really improved by using toolkits like mochikit) The point for me is to code everything in one language, and have all the view code in one place. We could even detect the Firefox versions that have python scripting and send them python :) Florent -- Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) CTO, Director of R&D +33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Ajax in Zope 3
Florent Guillaume wrote:
Myself I absolutely love the approach taken by CrackAjax
(http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.php/phunt/2005/10/06/subway_s_new_ajax_framework)
It's funny you mention that. I was intrigued by that too, but I can
only characterize his implementation as a toy. :(
I've been working on something similar but have tried to be a bit more
"professional" about it (unit tests, trying to be a good designer,
etc.). Like CrackAjax it only does translation of Python syntax to
JavaScript, but it does a good job and I really like the ability to
define client-side methods on the view. Here's an example from my
prototype (the canvas tag only works in Safari, Konquerer, and Firefox 1.5):
from anguine.view import AnguineView
from anguine.decorator import clientside
from zope.app.publisher.browser import BrowserView
class TestView1(BrowserView, AnguineView):
@clientside
def getContext():
canvas = document.getElementById('test_canvas')
return canvas.getContext('2d')
@clientside
def draw():
ctx = getContext()
ctx.translate(75,75)
for i in range(6):
ctx.save()
ctx.fillStyle = 'rgb('+(51*i)+','+(255-51*i)+',255)'
for i in range(6):
ctx.rotate(Math.PI*2/(i*6))
ctx.beginPath()
ctx.arc(0,i*12.5,5,0,Math.PI*2,true)
ctx.fill()
ctx.restore()
@clientside
def clearCanvas():
ctx = getContext()
ctx.clearRect(0, 0, 150, 150)
Here's the ZPT:
Draw
Clear
I consider this a mad scientist experiment, so I don't expect it to be
officially included anywhere or even get any work from me once the
novelty wears off. You are warned; I don't want angry villagers with
pitchforks and torches coming to my castle. :)
--
Benji York
Senior Software Engineer
Zope Corporation
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Ajax in Zope 3
Tarek Ziadé wrote: Florent Guillaume wrote: Tarek Ziadé wrote: Hi all, Some UI works have been done lately around and in Zope 3. I am thinking about the work that has been done at Neckar sprint (Zope3.org website, Viewlets, etc..), and on projects like CPSSkins for Z3 at ECM. I am planning to work on UI things as well, and on Ajax things in particular, both for Zope 2 and Zope 3 applications, and trying to choose the right Javascript toolkit for this. Before starting it up, I was thinking that it would be nice if the whole Z3 community would be using the same toolkit, and maybe, even integrate it into Z3 itself. This would allow developers to start some js things today under Z2/Five and port them. This would also probably lead into a "Z3 way" to do ajax and javascript things. What people think ? If this sounds like a good Idea, I would like to start a Z3 proposal on this topic, and contribute on its integration in Z3. Myself I absolutely love the approach taken by CrackAjax (http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.php/phunt/2005/10/06/subway_s_new_ajax_framework) I'm sure lots could be improved like improving python->javascript translation, allowing for explicit javascript when really needed, improving the testability, etc. Yes it needs inprovment indeed: the problem I had with this approach at this time is that the python written that is meant to be translated in js via an ast engine. it makes the Python code looks like pseudo-javascript. see in this example: http://svn.subway.python-hosting.com/crackajax/trunk/itunes.py the update_list() is using things like "document.getElementById()" and the 'document' variable is not existing at all in python side, if i get it right. I was wondering in fact what was the benefit of doing it, beside having a strong aversion of doing js coding (and that aversion can be really improved by using toolkits like mochikit) Tarek I haven't done it yet, but I'd like to see what patterns Ruby-on-Rails, and other frameworks (e.g . TurboGears) are using, and why it makes such a difference in terms of productivity. one of the important factors that I've noticed tend to complicate the code uselessly are: * the lack of transparency when dealing with client-side and server-side data structures (the need to convert data back and forth) * the need to temporary store and pass data in an artificial way (through URL parameters, storing temporary data in the request, inside javascript temporary objects) * representing a same thing with different names, for instance there are in zope3 many options for naming objects: - using one-word strings or strings without spaces (works best in URLs, good as nicknames) - using dotted names (less ambiguous than short strings because of the namespace) - using zope interfaces (works best with z3 components, adapters, utilities - useless in javascript) - using unique ids (intids) - using object names inside containers - using interface identifiers ( IFoo.__identifier__ ) ... - using interface names ( IFoo.__class__.__name__ ) once you've solved these issues, the rest is much easier. /JM ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Ajax in Zope 3
Florent Guillaume wrote: > Tarek Ziadé wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Some UI works have been done lately around and in Zope 3. I am thinking >> about the work that has been done at Neckar sprint (Zope3.org website, >> Viewlets, etc..), and on projects like CPSSkins for Z3 at ECM. >> >> I am planning to work on UI things as well, and on Ajax things in >> particular, both for Zope 2 and Zope 3 applications, and trying to >> choose the right Javascript toolkit for this. >> >> Before starting it up, I was thinking that it would be nice if the whole >> Z3 community would be using the same toolkit, and maybe, even integrate >> it into Z3 itself. >> >> This would allow developers to start some js things today under Z2/Five >> and port them. This would also probably lead into a "Z3 way" to do ajax >> and javascript things. >> >> What people think ? >> >> If this sounds like a good Idea, I would like to start a Z3 proposal on >> this topic, and contribute on its integration in Z3. >> > > Myself I absolutely love the approach taken by CrackAjax > (http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.php/phunt/2005/10/06/subway_s_new_ajax_framework) > > > I'm sure lots could be improved like improving python->javascript > translation, allowing for explicit javascript when really needed, > improving the testability, etc. Yes it needs inprovment indeed: the problem I had with this approach at this time is that the python written that is meant to be translated in js via an ast engine. it makes the Python code looks like pseudo-javascript. see in this example: http://svn.subway.python-hosting.com/crackajax/trunk/itunes.py the update_list() is using things like "document.getElementById()" and the 'document' variable is not existing at all in python side, if i get it right. I was wondering in fact what was the benefit of doing it, beside having a strong aversion of doing js coding (and that aversion can be really improved by using toolkits like mochikit) Tarek ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Ajax in Zope 3
Tarek Ziadé wrote: Hi all, Some UI works have been done lately around and in Zope 3. I am thinking about the work that has been done at Neckar sprint (Zope3.org website, Viewlets, etc..), and on projects like CPSSkins for Z3 at ECM. I am planning to work on UI things as well, and on Ajax things in particular, both for Zope 2 and Zope 3 applications, and trying to choose the right Javascript toolkit for this. Before starting it up, I was thinking that it would be nice if the whole Z3 community would be using the same toolkit, and maybe, even integrate it into Z3 itself. This would allow developers to start some js things today under Z2/Five and port them. This would also probably lead into a "Z3 way" to do ajax and javascript things. What people think ? If this sounds like a good Idea, I would like to start a Z3 proposal on this topic, and contribute on its integration in Z3. Myself I absolutely love the approach taken by CrackAjax (http://www.aminus.org/blogs/index.php/phunt/2005/10/06/subway_s_new_ajax_framework) I'm sure lots could be improved like improving python->javascript translation, allowing for explicit javascript when really needed, improving the testability, etc. Florent -- Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) Director of R&D +33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
