Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
Roger Ineichen wrote: We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows machine. I don't like the normal installation where is located in the python installation root right now. Is that where it ends up on Linux? If so, then we should respect that... That's not a normal pattern for windows. That's not what I asked ;-) But I agree it's the way how python application get installed. But that doesn't mean it's correct for every usecase. Yes, but it is here. I prefer the "less suprises" way of doing things, and with zope/python, that means I want packages to end up in site-packages, and instance-homes to only contrain instance-specific software... How whould you install two different version of z3 if you share the libraries? Ok, perhpas that's not a normal use case. But we have to support this with a installer. True, I think the normal windows idiot of letting the user specify the install location, but default it to the site-packages directory of the system python... I really think mkzopeinstance should be a part of the installation process. maybe, but I usually end up running it often on its own later.. That's not a problem if somebody likes to come to switzerland. Tell me if you are interessted and I can organize a workshop. Well, getting people there is all part of the fun of organising a sprint... I don't understand that, everytime I run a update I backup the data before. I don't think that's bad idea. Neither do I :-) But I agree not every installer supports this. I normaly implement in each installer a backup option. You only have to use them if you like it. ...but I don't really think it's the installer's responsibility. btw, why should we not offer a backup option for the Data.fs during backup? uh? Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
Hi Chris > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Chris Withers > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:09 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: zope3-dev@zope.org; 'Tim Peters' > Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1 > > Hi Roger, > > Roger Ineichen wrote: > > The main question is, what's the base "source" for build the Zope3 > > application server. I guess this will be generated by zpkgtools > > in some way. > > If I understand zpkgtools correct, we can use it for checkout the > > source. > > Right. > > > The step after the checkout isn't clear to me right now > > for windows. > > Tim posted a URL in another thread which I hope should clear > that up... > it may (and hopefully will!) mean more to you than it does for me... > > > We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows > > machine. I don't like the normal installation where is > located in the > > python installation root right now. > > Is that where it ends up on Linux? If so, then we should > respect that... That's not a normal pattern for windows. But I agree it's the way how python application get installed. But that doesn't mean it's correct for every usecase. > > This means we whould offer a > > installation "by instance" where we don't share the zope/python > > libraries, located in the python installation root, and don't need > > to run "mkzopeinstance". > > I'm -1 on this... How whould you install two different version of z3 if you share the libraries? Ok, perhpas that's not a normal use case. But we have to support this with a installer. There are two concepts for install applications on windows. 1. Applications can be installed on time on a server if they use hard coded version seetings or they will override previouse installtion settings in the "Software Panel" 2. Application can be installed per instance. in this case the insteller has to use "instance" settings for store it's info n the "Software Panel". Otheriwse we will override the installation data and are not able to unsinstall more the one zope3 server. But this is only required if we don't install the source to the python installation root. For me it's a must to install zope3 as a running application rater then install the source to python on a windows system and use mkzopeinstance. I really think mkzopeinstance should be a part of the installation process. > > The best way to do all required steps would be a sprint. I guess > > if the right people are there, it's possible to improve all parts > > where we need in 3 or 4 days. > > I guess you're volunteering to organise one then? ;-) That's not a problem if somebody likes to come to switzerland. Tell me if you are interessted and I can organize a workshop. > > btw, > > A option for backup the Data.fs should also be integrated in the > > update (installation) process. > > Don't really follow that... Backup has nothing to do with > setup/install > for me... I don't understand that, everytime I run a update I backup the data before. I don't think that's bad idea. But I agree not every installer supports this. I normaly implement in each installer a backup option. You only have to use them if you like it. btw, why should we not offer a backup option for the Data.fs during backup? Regards Roger Ineichen > cheers, > > Chris > > -- > Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting > - http://www.simplistix.co.uk > ___ > Zope3-dev mailing list > Zope3-dev@zope.org > Unsub: > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/dev%40projekt01.ch > > ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
Hi Roger, Roger Ineichen wrote: The main question is, what's the base "source" for build the Zope3 application server. I guess this will be generated by zpkgtools in some way. If I understand zpkgtools correct, we can use it for checkout the source. Right. The step after the checkout isn't clear to me right now for windows. Tim posted a URL in another thread which I hope should clear that up... it may (and hopefully will!) mean more to you than it does for me... We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows machine. I don't like the normal installation where is located in the python installation root right now. Is that where it ends up on Linux? If so, then we should respect that... This means we whould offer a installation "by instance" where we don't share the zope/python libraries, located in the python installation root, and don't need to run "mkzopeinstance". I'm -1 on this... The best way to do all required steps would be a sprint. I guess if the right people are there, it's possible to improve all parts where we need in 3 or 4 days. I guess you're volunteering to organise one then? ;-) btw, A option for backup the Data.fs should also be integrated in the update (installation) process. Don't really follow that... Backup has nothing to do with setup/install for me... cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
Hi Chris > -Original Message- > From: Chris Withers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 11:46 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: 'Mats Nordgren'; zope3-dev@zope.org > Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1 > > Roger Ineichen wrote: > > The Zope 3 application server is stable and ready for procuction. > > But the Zope3 windows installer isn't. > > > > We really have to improve the installation process and offer > > also a built in service manager where you can start and stop > > the server in the future. Also the missing program group isn't > > nice. You really can get lost and won't find the installation source > > after you installed Zope3 for run the mkzopeinstance. > > Because most people don't realize that the zope 3 source > get installed > > to the python location. > > Roger, > > I see you've got some great idea here, what would it take to > make them a > reality? The main question is, what's the base "source" for build the Zope3 application server. I guess this will be generated by zpkgtools in some way. If I understand zpkgtools correct, we can use it for checkout the source. The step after the checkout isn't clear to me right now for windows. zpkgtools dosn't offer a way to get a running buildout where is needed for build the installer ".exe" right now. But I guess we can enhance zpkgtools for what we need. Or implement another python script where will build our installer. The python script where we use right now uses the default python concept for build the ".exe" file. That's why we have all this restrictions. We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows machine. I don't like the normal installation where is located in the python installation root right now. This means we whould offer a installation "by instance" where we don't share the zope/python libraries, located in the python installation root, and don't need to run "mkzopeinstance". Then we can think about how we can integrate a windows install builder. This means it should be possible to run a pyhton script where will create a configuration script for the install builder like BitRock or InnoSetup. This is not very hard since install builder like BitRock can be used from commando line and use a XML file as the configuration for building a installer ".exe". This part could be automated and since BitRock runs on all OS, we could even build a windows installer on a linux box. Only for testing whould we need a windows box. If this main concept works, we can think about the integration of a service manager. I guess there are some python service mamanger out there where we can use and customize. The best way to do all required steps would be a sprint. I guess if the right people are there, it's possible to improve all parts where we need in 3 or 4 days. btw, A option for backup the Data.fs should also be integrated in the update (installation) process. Regards Roger Ineichen > cheers, > > Chris > > -- > Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting > - http://www.simplistix.co.uk > > ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
Roger Ineichen wrote: The Zope 3 application server is stable and ready for procuction. But the Zope3 windows installer isn't. We really have to improve the installation process and offer also a built in service manager where you can start and stop the server in the future. Also the missing program group isn't nice. You really can get lost and won't find the installation source after you installed Zope3 for run the mkzopeinstance. Because most people don't realize that the zope 3 source get installed to the python location. Roger, I see you've got some great idea here, what would it take to make them a reality? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
Hi [...] > Bolotov, > > Zope 3.1 is definitely ready for production use. > Zope-3.1.0-win32-py2.4.exe > is a Windows executable. Just double click and install. > > When you have installed the Zope you need to go to > c:\Python24\Scripts and > run the mkzopeinstance.bat. Specify an install path to your > zope instance, > username, and password. Now go to [instance]/bin and run > runzope.bat. Zope > will be accessible at http://localhost:8080. I think we should change this installation process in the future for windows. [...] > > Hi zope3-dev, > > I really frustrated about Zope 3.1 > Is "Zope 3.1 is more than ready for production use" ? > > Did you try to install > Zope-3.1.0.win32-py2.4.exe on Windows XP ? > the zope run script is for Linux and even if > you manage to run Zope 3.1, it doesn't work > > in README.txt > Creating a Zope instance home > doesn't need -u or -d parameters > > and > Starting Zope > - > > XXX to be written > > Pavel. I agree with you. The Zope 3 application server is stable and ready for procuction. But the Zope3 windows installer isn't. We really have to improve the installation process and offer also a built in service manager where you can start and stop the server in the future. Also the missing program group isn't nice. You really can get lost and won't find the installation source after you installed Zope3 for run the mkzopeinstance. Because most people don't realize that the zope 3 source get installed to the python location. Regards Roger Ineichen Projekt01 GmbH www.projekt01.ch _ END OF MESSAGE ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
Bolotov, Zope 3.1 is definitely ready for production use. Zope-3.1.0-win32-py2.4.exe is a Windows executable. Just double click and install. When you have installed the Zope you need to go to c:\Python24\Scripts and run the mkzopeinstance.bat. Specify an install path to your zope instance, username, and password. Now go to [instance]/bin and run runzope.bat. Zope will be accessible at http://localhost:8080. Any development will be done in [instance]/lib/python. Configuration will be done in [instance]/etc. I suggest you read Stephan Richters development guide at http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/FrontPage/Z ope3Book or try Benji Yorks quickstart at http://www.benjiyork.com/quick_start. That should be a good start, after that may God help you :) Sincerely, gnosis -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bolotov Pavel Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 10:09 AM To: zope3-dev@zope.org Subject: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1 Hi zope3-dev, I really frustrated about Zope 3.1 Is "Zope 3.1 is more than ready for production use" ? Did you try to install Zope-3.1.0.win32-py2.4.exe on Windows XP ? the zope run script is for Linux and even if you manage to run Zope 3.1, it doesn't work in README.txt Creating a Zope instance home doesn't need -u or -d parameters and Starting Zope - XXX to be written Pavel. __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/mats%40ronin-group.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
