----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Philion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: out.println(".....");? There's STILL no better way
> (jumping right in here...)
>
> I won't speak for Steven, but I feel the JSP is flawed for several
reasons:
>
> 1) It seems to be a direct response to ASP; an attempt to garner the
support of ASP programmers and not really address the problem.
<M$-BASH>Futher, ASP (on which JSP was based) was designed by Microsoft.
Artificats of that design show up in JSP.</M$-BASH>
Just because JSP has some of its roots in ASP does not mean that JSP is a
bad thing. It means the ASP designers can leverage their familiarity
with the structure of ASP files over to JSP. JSP 1.0 certainly is a big
improvement on ASP and ASP has, at its heart, a terribly flawed language
which
JSP's do not.
JSP was an attempt to provide the power of servlets to web developers in an
already familiar format. Eminently sensible as it means no one who is
familiar with ASP and Java need learn something new.
> 2) The whole point of a template system is to allow the clear seperation
of business logic and presentation. JSP allows to two to be coupled tightly.
In fact, I would say (from the lazy programmer point-of-view) the JSP
encourages the tight coupling.
Any system that does not enforce loosely coupled design and implementationn
will have this problem.
This is a problem to do with the designer/programmer and not the system.
JSP's do make it very easy to decouple business logic and presentation, as
do ASP's when used correctly.
JSP's have JavaBeans and ASP's can use COM, precisely as was intended.
> 3) When I look at template systems, I want to be able to use templates for
HTML, DHTML with SSL, perhaps plain text reports, maybe RTF, etc. These
formats should all be supported (or possible) from a template systems. JSP
does HTML, period.
No JSP can do more than just HTML
Do you have any readily available, easy to convert to, systems that do
better than either ASP or JSP?
>
> - Paul Philion
>
> Doug Turner wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to hear your reasons for saying that JSP is *fundamentally*
> > flawed; my very limited experience with them have been positive, and I'd
> > like to get more input.
> >
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