Charles, thank you for summarizing my thoughts on Howard's original
"expos�".
As Charles mentioned, your view on the Java language seemed based more on
emotions and sentiments than objective and analytical views. Frankly, that
makes me wonder on how you approach your own software development. That has
the (perhaps unintentional) side effect of being offensive, hence the
hostile responses you
get back (which does not allow you to "rest your case" imho).
I would be in support of asking from refraining from such colorful language
in favor of
rather more intellectual and objective dialogues.
Jean Bresse
-----Original Message-----
From: Backman, Charles R. (James Tower)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 11:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SERVLET-INTEREST] Stability of Java
Your Response makes you no better then the others. If you want honest
answers start out by asking a question, not flamming the platform, & group.
Please refrain from any such further comments. If you have questions please
reissue them, nobody can get past your first paragraph without you calling
something BAD. Maybe the problems you are having are related to your setup
or knowledge of java. You have not given us any information which could
help you come to a conclusion that java is not bad. Your comments are more
of an editorial then a question rasied. And if you don't like the group or
things discussed you can always sign off. No one asked you to say bad
things, so any response you get, you requested.
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 9:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Stability of Java
These types of responses are not what I expected. Instead of addressing
the issues raised I receive personal attacks. Violence is the response a
weak mind/programming language. I REST MY CASE.
Brian Mrkonjic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 10/13/2000 06:27:52 AM
Please respond to "A mailing list for discussion about Sun Microsystem's
Java Servlet API Technology."
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject: Re: Stability of Java
Graham,
That's no way to talk to Bill Gates.
Brian
>From: Graham Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "A mailing list for discussion about Sun Microsystem's Java
> Servlet API Technology." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [SERVLET-INTEREST] Stability of Java
>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:11:29 +0100
>
>Well I wouldn't want to force any more of that sandwich down your
>knowledgeable throat. Maybe you should sign-off this list and leave some
>bandwidth to us poor remaining unenlightened folks.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Howard Taylor
>Sent: 13 October 2000 14:26
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Stability of Java
>
>
>
>I have been on this little "chat" board for less than 24 hours and I have
>seen enough to confirm to me that Java is a bad tool. I have never in my
>life seen a development tool that is so misunderstood. No one knows how
to
>use. It is about as crude as COBOL. I have never seen anything like it.
>The lack of professional documentation should send a strong message to the
>programming community. Error messages come up and there is no way in this
>world to find out what they mean. Just look at some of the questions that
>come across these emails. I have yet to see someone answer a question
>posted. That is because nobody can say with any degree of confidence that
>their solution will work from machine to machine. Isn't Java supposed to
>be OS independent? Why does code work on one machine and not another?
Why
>are there so many different development tools that are supposed to do the
>same thing? Why is it that all of these tools install and leave a
>directory structure behind that a person using a different tool can't
>recognize? Java is just a huge shit sandwich that SUN is trying to ram
>down our throats in their little battle with Microsoft.
>
>We have very talented programmers on staff where I work and we cannot get
>any consistency out of Java. PEOPLE, HEAR THIS ... no one will ever have
>success making a car that can accept parts from other cars ... PERIOD.
>There is no way that Java will ever work. There are too many variables
>involved from machine to machine to allow Java to run consistently. Let's
>take a web site that runs applets. You can bet your ass that a good
number
>of people who hit the site will have an error when that applet tries to
>run. It happens every day when I get on. As soon as that happens to me I
>am out of there and you just lost my interest/BUSINESS.
>
>Even if you think you can make it work was it worth all the time it took?
>Hardly. I have been trying to get a very simple servlet to run that I got
>out of the Deitel & Deitel Java How To book. D&D swears it runs on their
>machines. Why won't it run here. I have sent numerous emails to them and
>they have been trying to figure out what is wrong but can't. These guys
>are supposed to know what they are doing. A perfect example of the
>instability of Java.
>
>How many millions of man-hours are going to be wasted on Java before IS
>managers realize it doesn't work? We need to get back to the business of
>client server programming and trash this cancer of a tool.
>
>I CHALLENGE SUN TO DEFEND THIS PRODUCT. IT DOES NOT WORK AS BRAGGED.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the
body
>of the message "signoff SERVLET-INTEREST".
>
>Archives: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/servlet-interest.html
>Resources: http://java.sun.com/products/servlet/external-resources.html
>LISTSERV Help: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/user/user.html
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the
body
>of the message "signoff SERVLET-INTEREST".
>
>Archives: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/servlet-interest.html
>Resources: http://java.sun.com/products/servlet/external-resources.html
>LISTSERV Help: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/user/user.html
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
___________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body
of the message "signoff SERVLET-INTEREST".
Archives: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/servlet-interest.html
Resources: http://java.sun.com/products/servlet/external-resources.html
LISTSERV Help: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/user/user.html
___________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body
of the message "signoff SERVLET-INTEREST".
Archives: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/servlet-interest.html
Resources: http://java.sun.com/products/servlet/external-resources.html
LISTSERV Help: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/user/user.html
___________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body
of the message "signoff SERVLET-INTEREST".
Archives: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/servlet-interest.html
Resources: http://java.sun.com/products/servlet/external-resources.html
LISTSERV Help: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/user/user.html
___________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body
of the message "signoff SERVLET-INTEREST".
Archives: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/servlet-interest.html
Resources: http://java.sun.com/products/servlet/external-resources.html
LISTSERV Help: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/user/user.html
