Try to pay attention to what most of us are saying here. We're talking about playing with friends in a regular friendly game.
For an example; I play nearly every Tuesday and Thursday with the same 6 - 8 guys. Handicaps range from 4 to 19. Regardless of the way foursomes are arranged, the low handicapper plays at scratch and the others stroke off him. So, if I'm a 14 and the 4's in my group, I get 10 pops. We play skins (no carryovers), sandies, and individuals. Some days a couple bucks change hands, some days not. we also play the other group a nassau. Front nine back nine and total. No "alohas". Tell me what's wrong with that system? To be sure, if I'm a 14 say, and I'm playing another 14, we play scratch. But if I'm playing a 4 there's no way to play even. In our game, if there's anything "unfair" to the higher handicappers it's that the better players can make birdies and sandies more often. If you've ever played serious match play golf, like SCGA Team Match Play (which I played for over 30 years), you gave or got strokes. And believe me, if you're a competitor, Team Match Play is a damn site harder and stressful than any money game I was ever involved with, and I've played for some pretty big bucks. So, if you're good enough to tee it up with anybody at scratch, more power to you, but don't presume to tell us here that's the only way to play the game. TFlan Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:26:23 -0700 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Favorite Club for 2009 To: [email protected] If your playing for money then be a man (just an expression ladies) If you don't have the game then go practice some more. The whole handicap system is unfair to scratch players to begin with! It scews the game to begin with. On top of scewing the game most courses don't keep their course setup each day in accordance with the courses slope ratings. Tees are moved up or back by some grass cutter who doesn't understand how a course is rated. People do play gimmes on rounds they post in the system all the time as well as mulligans. The whole system set up is scam. It should be abolished. If your going to tell me that it makes it possible for people of different abilities to compete against each other and there for makes it more fun and attracts more people to the game, I will say it again the whole system is totally unfair to a scratch golfer. If you can't have fun playing golf with out betting then you should go play poker instead. Honestly if we had only the people that really love the game for the game itself playing we wouldn't have the dammed pace of play problems we have. Too many people out there that honestly just can't play the game. Call me a fuddy duddy or just plain no fun but try playing any other sport for money and tell your opponent "oh by the way you better than me so to make it fair you have to give me points!!!!!!!!!! No other sport runs tournaments like that do they. On top of all that add the fact that people cheat on their handicaps. Don't even begin to tell me thay don't. you will find sand baggers in every mens club out there. YES SERIOUSLY IF YOU WANT TO PLAY FOR MONEY THEN PLAY STRAIGHT UP OR GO BACK TO THE GRADE SCHOOL PLAY GROUND WHERE EVERYONE GETS A GOLD STAR FOR TRYING!!!!!!! Sincerely, Robert Devino 14252 Delano St. Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 (818) 908-1691 From: Tom Flanagan <[email protected]> To: shoptalk <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 10:55:20 PM Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Favorite Club for 2009 Oh, come on; You're playing with your friends. One is a 4 handicapper, you're a 12, an other guy's a 14 and a fourth is a scratch player. Are you seriously suggesting that all play at scratch? The way it works is the low handicapper plays at scratch and the rest spin off him. That's how it works in the real world of friendly golf played for a few bucks. I don't know of anybody who plays it differently. TFlan Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:27:21 -0700 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Favorite Club for 2009 To: [email protected] When you play for money, you play straight up! None of this handicap thing, you ain't playing the horses now! Sincerely, Robert Devino 14252 Delano St. Van Nuys, Ca. 91401 (818) 908-1691 From: Tom Flanagan <[email protected]> To: shoptalk <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 1:29:49 PM Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Favorite Club for 2009 Hah! One more thing that occurs to me. I absolutely hate getting hooked up in a tournament or in a money game, regardless of the size of the bet, with a guy whose handicap is calculated after a few rounds of "in the leather", 2 o.b's "gimme a double cuz that's all I can post, no rooties no divots, toss it out of a bunker cuz I can't play bunker shots". What the hell kind of a handicap can the guy possibly have. In a "count 'em all" stroke play tournament that guy is a goner, same with match play. We have guys here sporting 10's and 11's who can't break 90 if you spot them 10m strokes. Vanity handicaps galore. TFlan From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Favorite Club for 2009 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:53:56 -0400 Personally I have no problem with casual or recreational golf – in fact, playing in preferred lies events, whether club or league sponsored, can be a lot of fun. I do have a BIG problem with people who can’t form 2 golf-related sentences without including their latest handicap, all the while playing with these casual rules. Saying you play to a ‘USGA’ 5 (or whatever) while ‘rolling it on the fairway’ or playing ‘in the leather’ is probably the biggest lie in golf. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom and Donna Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Favorite Club for 2009 Exactly what I am talking about! Thanks Tom for the reply! TM Tom Flanagan wrote: "Recreational golf" is exactly that. Willie Nelson replied, when asked what par is on his own golf course "hell, par is whatever I want it to be". Tournament, or "serious" golf is one thing, but when a group of guys who play together regularly want to allow preferred lies, 20 clubs, illegal balls or bent rules, how does that affect anyone else? It's their game. We have some "illegal" tournaments here, as do most every club at which I've been a member; "Selective Drives", string tournaments, pari-mutual betting, calcuttas, mandatory skins, "mulligans" - the list is long. Take a look at the large number of tournament formats that are played and sponsored by golf organizations. If you've never played in one you're missing some fun times. I certainly don't approve of cheating - I've been rules chairman, tournament chairman, handicap chairman, president and other offices in a few golf clubs and have always supported the rules. However, having said that, what groups of friends do among themselves during a round of golf has absolutely nothing to do with me, or anyone else for that matter. TFlan > Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 05:28:31 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Favorite Club for 2009 > > As a clubmaker and fitter I seldom post on the forum. I am also a player > that enjoys the game rather it is played by the rules of St. Andrews or > a Saturday morning round of laughter, competition, or a pocket change > gambling, it is still golf. Recently some of the senior players at our > club decided to it was time to abide by the gospel of St. Andrews. Gone > are the days of gimmes, best ball, inside the rubber, and just plain > fun. All at once, without notice to the membership, three or four > players, decide that Scottish Rule will rule the game in ALL play > regardless of times passed. What was once an exercise in relaxation has > become an iron fisted restriction on fun and companionship. > > With that said I totally agree and support the rules of golf in every > way when it comes to tournament play. The rules were established so > that the game could retain its integrity through time and sustain its > social following. However there is still room on the course for the > guys that load up on beer and disturb players two fairways away. It is > a game and it will always be just a game so why not let there be room > for just a good time. Tournament play is different and should be > treated that way. The rules of golf are simple, just like another set > of rules for living, not to many to learn, not to many to follow. The > problem is that folks try every way imaginable to bend them for their > own purpose. Just watch a player on TV try to get away with ball > placement during a tournament. > > There are very few postings on this forum that I don't read. I save the > ones that I can learn from and even pass on to others the lessons I > learn from. Keep up the postings gentlemen, you are my teacher. > > Tom Mason > > Marcello Franchi wrote: > > Tom, > > If my email sent a message like I was in any way offended by your > > statements, it was away from my intent and I apologize for that. > > English is not my mother tongue, and probably the tone of my email > > came out harder than I wanted. > > > > Sorry for that and ciao, > > Marcello > > -- > Shoptalk ** Sponsored by the new Aldila Voodoo. > Learn more at http://aldilavoodoo.com/ Get your vacation photos on > your phone! Click here. -- Tom Mason Class of 1960 SDI 7-28-2001 Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here. Get your vacation photos on your phone! Click here. _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! 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