On Saturday 30 Aug 2008 8:11:08 pm Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> The following article about economic progress and the Dalits appeared
> on my doorstep this morning. As an ignorant foreigner, I'm curious
> about whether it is considered to reasonably reflect reality:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/world/asia/30caste.html
>
> Perry

The article per-se is fine. It does reflect 21st century reality for 
the "fifth varna" - the so caled ("untouchables/harijans/dalits/Schecduled 
caste or tribe")

If one must understand the caste system I call your attention to the second 
paragraph of the arictle

Quote: "Mr. Prasad was born into the Pasi community, once considered 
untouchable on the ancient Hindu caste order. ". 

The "Pasi community" is Prasad's tribe or "jati" (rhymes with "party")

India is a collection of tribes - essentially endogamous ethnic "communities". 
I am a member of a tribe too as are many of the Indian members of Silk. My 
tribe is called "hoysala karnataka". My father and mother and my grandpatents 
were all hoysala karnatakas. But my wife is from a different tribe (Madhwa). 
These "tribes" are otherwise known as "jatis".

In the remote past it is said that the social order in India was divided up 
according to occupation. This occupation based classification divided society 
up into four "varnas" (plus a fifth category). A chap called "Manu" who lived 
a long time ago is guilty of codifyting these Varnas in the most egregious 
terms but basically the "varnas" correspond to "castes"

The 4+1 varnas are as follows:

1) Brahmin: priests, teachers - people who do not bother using their hands for 
a living - the "highest caste". They use their heads (I'm told)

2) Kshatriya: soldiers, kings -These are high caste too, but there are 
numerous historic examples of people from all castes becoming rulers,

3) Vysya: businessmen, capilalists - who controlled the grain and other 
trades. These vary between high caste to middle caste. Many are still wealthy 
communities.

4) Shudra: Industrialists - at least "industry" as known in ancient India - 
pottery, ironmongers, carpenters etc. 

The fifth category in the 4+1 were the "mlecchas" - essentially people who 
dealt with "dirt" - blood, skin, feces and the like.

Technically I am a mleccha - because I am a surgeon. But India does not want 
to consider me a mleccha, but calls me a Brahmin instead. This is the 
fundamental corruption of the caste system  that was recognised by visitors 
to India. India's caste mess cannot be understood without knowing the 
difference between jati and varna in an age when jati has been made 
synonymous with varna.

Over many centuries a system of classification of people according to 
occupation ("varna") gradually assumed a nepotistic character so that 
children of people of a particular varna tended to follow the same occupation 
as their fathers creating present day reality in which "jati=varna". that 
means that one's tribe became synonymous with one's occupation. Hence 
Prasad's "jati" - called Pasi labelled him as 
a "untouchable/harijan/dalit/Schecduled caste or tribe", and my 
tribe "hoysala kanatakas" - who were Brahmins - forces me to remain a Brahmin 
despite doing "dirty/unclean" work.

In effect this meant that if a Brahmin had a son who was a good for nothing 
debauch - he would sill remain a Brahmin. For the same erason - I remain 
rahmin despite dealing with feces and blood. On the other hand is a 
mleccha/untouchable/dalit had a brilliant Einstein of a son - that son would 
still be forced to remain in his father's "traditional" ocuupation of 
cleaning toilets or burying the dead or whatever.

India will never get rid of caste because governmental policies choose to 
perpetuate the system. If Indians were to implement the caste system well - 
as they should, they should really classify themselves by occupation and not 
by birth. That makes me a mleccha/untouchable. I suspect that this would make 
Udhay a Vysya (a businessman). I guess anybody who writes code for a living 
would be a Brahmin.

One of the reasons why advanced surgery died out in India 2000 years ago was 
that surgeons werer paid a pittance and considered to be dirty and it just 
sis not pay to be a surgeon. I have a cite for this.

shiv



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