Shiv:
I can think of at least half a dozen groups of people (or organizations
- that is about all the management jargon I am using; I am, however,
using a lot of rather precise terms from economics, sociology and
political science in my posts on the List) that were united in a common
cause before Christianity.
Organizations can be rather loosely defined, but if we define
organizations are groups of people characterized by three things -
goals, roles and rules - then perhaps we can narrow it down at least
somewhat. To name just a couple : Ashoka's armies and the people who
built the Pyramids. In each case, there was a tangible result, viz., the
conquest of Kalinga, etc. and the construction of the Pyramids.
My original point remains : Christianity and Islam don't hold any
records as being the first time a group of humans came together for a
common cause.
And, in fact, to my original point, I will add one more : Christianity
and Islam do not hold any records in terms of longevity either. Consider
the aboriginals of the Andamans. They are a people who have been united
for a common cause for much longer than Christianity, the cause being
their own survival.
And to add it even further : one could argue that mathematicians have
been advancing an indubitably progressive cause for much longer than
Christianity and Islam. Between the third and fourth centuries alone,
the Greeks advanced mathematics in various ways : theorems of
arithmetic, the theory of conic sections, the basic principles of plane
geometry, the properties of curves (the quadrature of the parabola, et
cetera), number theory (the Sand Reckoner method, et cetera), and
properties of triangles to name just a few. (I, for one, consider myself
as working in the footsteps of those Ancients, advancing the exact same
cause, insofar as my computer science work goes.)
And finally : of course, Christianity and Islam hold records in terms of
absolute numbers, but then the Hindus passing down their sacred
traditions have done virtually the same thing for a massive population.
That task has been carried for far longer than Christianity and Islam
and it is a task that continues to this day.
AnandP.S. A word on your ear. 1) perhaps you ought to use more precise
terms to delineate your points? or 2) perhaps you ought to phrase what
you are saying in the form of questions so that they are not taken be
statements of facts? I will try to respond more over on this here List
: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indo-euro-americo-asian_list/message/112
--- In [email protected], ss <cybersurg@...> wrote:
>
> On Monday 17 Jan 2011 11:01:50 pm Anand Manikutty wrote:
> > but it is worth noting that
> > large groups of people have worked together since the time of the
> > Pyramids.
> >
> > Formally, Management is a factor of production that can move
economic
> > outcomes closer to the productivity frontier. The economic
advantages of
> > creating a common cause (but really accruing from Management as a
factor
> > of production entailed by the division of labor) were recognized
well
> > before organized religions such as Christianity and Islam came into
being.
> >
>
> I have no argument with this but I would like to ask about absolute
numbers of
> people who were successfully made to work for a common cause and the
periods
> of time over which this was achieved.
>
> I don't think the "organization" that built the pyramids lasted as
long as, or
> organized as many people (in absolute numbers) as Christianity or
islam. I am
> not a management literate person and am unable to use management
jargon, but
> if asked to judge, I would judge Christianity and Islam as being far
better
> managers of larger numbers of people over longer periods of time than
any
> previous organization.
>
> But both Christianity and Islam had "bugs" in their code that caused
infighting
> and breakdown of the organization. I believe that in human history the
> development of secular democracy and communism were both aimed at
uniting
> peope in a manner that went beyond the "bugs" of religion. The results
of
> secular democracy and communism are mixed. They have both managed to
unite
> larger numbers of people than either religion, but have not lasted as
long as
> the religions yet. we won't know for several centuries if these
organizations
> are better or worse as a long term method of uniting all people under
a common
> human platform.
>
> The web has not managed to cut it. Yet.
>
> shiv
>
