Morning Simon,
I appreciate your explanations and efforts to make all this clear.
I got a strange message, and I wondered if you sent it.
( or caused it to happen ) I think you could do it. <grin>
It was a bounce back that said I tried to send the message to a Yahoo
list. I of course did not send it. MY virus scanners are up to date and I
have had nothing like that happen. Will post the header later for your review.
I have read your message two or three times and understand most of it. One
of my managers told me once,.........
"What you know, you really know", so I am not as confused as your message
makes me appear. We may be using different terms at times.
I will address a few points.
>> I just set up a personality to use Fugitt.com mail server.
>> Fugitt.com is not a mail server, it is a TLD (top level domain).
What would you call it ? mail.fugitt.com ......... you can ping
mail.fugitt.com and it has an SMTP server with authentication.
Authentication differs from one mail server to another, and if that is not
set right, they usually don't work.
"The only problem that exists is that some bogus ISP's will allow you to
SEND out only on their mail server."
The comment is incomplete *and* incorrect, so it is difficult to properly
respond to, but let's see if we can clear it up below...
I have talked to these ISP's and they will tell me, I cannot send to
another mail server.
Fact is many still allow me to send messages to another mail server.
Maybe it is your wording...
Maybe so, but it is true, nevertheless.
*You* don't send messages *to* any particular mail server, the smtp server
takes care of that, using the DNS system.
Of course I understand that. But they go to the mail server before they
go anywhere else. They simply receiver them and send then,
how else can I set up forwarding or mail, which I never to except for the
people who I host their domains.
You *do*, however, utilize what are called 'smtp' servers - aka,
'Outbound' or 'Outgoing' smtp servers - for sending mail. You can have 150
different email accounts set up in Thunderbird (or Outlook, etc), all
using the same smtp server for sending their email.
Of course I know that also. But I do in fact set up different
SMTP servers for the different personalities. All in my mail program.
I think all decent mail programs will do that and don't see how they even
enter into our problems of understanding all this.
You could also have a different smtp server for each one, or only select
ones.
Ok........ that is crystal clear, as I knew.
Home users generally use their ISP's smtp server for sending email - this
is called 'relaying' - however, it isn't absolutely necessary or required.
True, but not all of us utilize it in that manner.
For example, when you have a GMail account and access it using a
traditional mail client using POP, you can also choose to use their smtp
server in your mail client to send, but you will have to enable 'smtp
authentication', as well as encryption (TLS/SSL) to do so.
Yes, I understand that. I have used on POP server and a different SMTP
server for the same personality.
I do believe that Gmail *only* allows authenticated relaying through
port 587, but it is quite common for services like this to allow you to
use either (25 or 587).
I know some of the ports, but not all, There are 64,000 or so are they
not ? For the ones that don't know, these are virtual ports.
Knowledgeable hackers can combine them in a fashion to access remote
computers, unless they are specifically blocked.
Often I think Microsoft over done many things. It tool some fools to try
to run a battle ship on Microsoft software. I forget how many
times it had to be towed back to the dock.
If they allow your computer to send *directly* with one of a few dozen
standalone smtp servers that you can install on your PC (you'd have to know
how to do this, obviously),
Yes, I agree, but I have not and see no reason to do it.
>> Correct - which makes me inclined to believe that we are *not* >>
talking about them leaving port 25 open.
I did not say we were, did I ?
These ISP's are doing nothing but passing a packet, like a file
transfer, or what have you.
Packets are transmitted via protocols (ie, TCP/IP, SMTP, IMAP, POP, etc),
over ports. Both protocols *and* ports can be individually blocked, thus
preventing 'packets' from being sent over that particular protocol or port.
A protocol is software, not hardware. There is nothing magic going
on. Packets must be transmitted by some hardware it seems to me.
Still, some ISP's are intentionally set up to BLOCK, ( not pass the packets
) to another SMTP server.
As you said, they have good reasons, but I wonder how the others handle the
protection.
I just set up a personality to use Fugitt.com mail server.
Fugitt.com is not a mail server, it is a TLD (top level domain).
What shall you call it ? mail.fugitt.com ?
>>in use, as one of their prime targets to block is botnets, and one
>>of the primary indications of a compromised PC is if it is a home
>>pc - ie, using a dynamically allocated IP address belonging to
>>their ISP, which is what all DSL/Cable subscribers are using.
Most home uses know near zero about security so I would agree.
Several years back, I set up a server in the back room at an industrial
site. I got free high speed access for some time, and never had any
problems. Likely there are 100's more hackers now.
Some ISP's allow these to pass thru and others don't.
Is that what you are addressing ?
Yes - any ISP that allows this (does not block port 25 except for their
own smtp server) is part of the spam PROBLEM...
Again, the ones that do have been in business 20 years or more.
I mentioned they must solve the problem in some other way.
Of course when I hit reply on a message, I can send it out to any
mail server that I select.
Again, this is poor wording - you don't send *to* a mail server. You send
*via* an smtp server - and I assure you you can't send it through any of
the ones *I* maintain
OK.... so what is an SMTP server if not a mail server?
To most of us, an SMTP is as close as we will ever come to a
"Mail server".
You are advanced in this area, and I am just a country boy that has never
been to school. I did build and sell half a million dollars worth of
computers in 1997 including servers that cost 40 to 50 grand. The
operating system cost 25 grand, so I learned a little from the school of
hard knocks. But I still do not know what a mail server really is, .......
it appears/
I realize my words and terms are different, so you could tell me
what a SMTP server is and what a Mail server really is ?
I realize that an SMTP server is software and a mail server may be
hardware, but it could be software also. Which is trivia the way I see it.
- but you are welcome to try - try relaying through smtp.media-brokers.com
and see what happens...
Only two things can happen, it passes or not. Why do it?
Any mail server that accepts anonymous relays is what is known as an 'open
relay', and again, is part of the spam PROBLEM. Open relays are [one of]
the bane[s] of the internet.
So, you are saying when I send mail to mail.fugitt.com I would be using
the mail server at the ISP I use ?
Maybe so, but I do not see it that way, and never have. I don't believe
that is true.
When I send mail to mail.fugitt.com I am not addressing my
ISP mail server. I see it as pass thru packets. If you call it something
else, and it is, please explain that.
Yes - but headers are easily forged. I could easily send a message to this
mail list that *appears* to come from you.
True, I understand that. No reason to do it, but I have once or twice.
I sure hope you can explain that strange message I got back from a Yahoo
list, that I did not send. I would hope you did it to demonstrate and
prove a point. <grin>
By the way, I have communicated with Ward Christensen. I am sure you know
who he is. He invented the first error correcting protocol, X-modem. I
wonder if he is still alive.
Sorry I use the wrong terms and confuse the issues, even the ones I understand.
Wayne
--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org
To post, address your message to: [email protected]
Address Off-Topic messages to: [email protected]
The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down...
List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
