----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall Dudley" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 23 November 2000 04:51 Subject: Re: CS>again
> Ivan Anderson wrote: > > > > > If clumps of silver repel each other how can that happen if they are > > not > > > > ions? > > > > > I did not say they were not ions. I said single atom ions vs multi > > atom > > > particle ions. > > > > You said silver metal, but whatever. I don't claim CS is single atomic > > ions either, but I do believe my CS is groups of single atomic ions. > > > > Really. Here is the quote which was at the bottom of the message I replied > to, decide for yourself: > > " I still maintain that there is a BIG difference between how a single > atom ion of silver, such as you have in compounds, acts as opposed to the > multi-atom clump of atoms ion that is in CS. " Yes Marshall so you did, but its a bit confusing...and at the bottom of the same message you said: " I bet the silver nitrate tissue turns dark and the CS one does not. How can the CS reduce to metalic silver? It is already metalic silver." So you can appreciate the misunderstanding, and really, you can't have it both ways. > > Absolutely, I have referenced it here in the past several times. Teh book > "Colloidal Chemistry" is one good reference which even has graphs of this. I have found two vollumes in the science library titled 'Colloid Chemistry' neither of them refer to catalyst action that could be related to the action of CS in vivo...who is the author of the tombe you refer to? > I still believe that catalytic oxidation is also related to the > effectiveness: > > See http://silver-lightning.com/research2.html for more on this. You do not provide a reference to 'Colloid Chemistry' there. > >From a previous posting: > > "I believe you are incorrect that a catalyst has to take part in the > reaction. For some catalyzed operations, such as making polyethylene, it > does not take part, but acts as a templet. But in other instances it can > take place in the reaction, but what happens is that it is involved for only > > a moment, then ends up back like it was. For instance you want to react A > and B, but they will not react. The addition of a catalyst causes A to > react with the catalyst (or at least be absorbed onto the surface, which is > what I am claiming for CS), then it becomes available to B to react with it, > > so you end up with A reacted with B, and the catalyst unchanged. This is > still considered a catalytic operation." > > Metalic catalysts do not react with the constituate parts in many cases. > They normally provide surface area where the two components come together > easily and can then react. They provide a substrate, and will often take > part in the transfer of electrons between the two components reacting by > virtual of being a good conductor. (A good example of this would be copper > and zinc in an acid bath, then you short the two together with silver, they > suddenly begin corroding. While this is not really considered a catalyst, > it is the macro version of the same reaction). They can also attract the > components that are to react to the surface by having a charge. CS does all > of these. I'm not sure how this is relavent, I am in no doubt that silver is a catalyst in the right situation. > >From a previous posting: > > "It IS well documented that the catalytic effects of colloidal metals go > from > almost non-existant to strong, back to almost non-existant as particle size > increases. Check "Colloidal Chemistry" for some nice graphs of this > phenomenon. > > Here is the theory behind it. For a catalyst like silver to work, it must > attract both the reducing agent (pathogen) and the oxidizating agent > (oxygen) to > > it's surface. Once both are on the surface, they are neutralized by the > silver > attracting the loosely bound electron(s) from the agents. The agents, no > longer > repealling each other now, easily come in contact and react, killing the > pathogen. Where do you get this mechanism from? Why doesn't the silver ion react directly with the reducing agent and share electrons with it, especially as these agent are often compounds with which silver has a high affinity for. > Now, if we have one silver atom, it may attract an oxygen atom or a > pathogen. > The oxygen or pathogen will be neutralized by the silver taking an electron > from > it since the silver is positive and the oxygen or pathogen negative. At > this > point the silver atom and other particle present a neutral body. It no > longer > is positively charged, and thus no longer attracts any more oxygen or > pathogens. Thus it is ineffective as a catalyst. Forstly oxygen gas is a neutral molecule and does not have a negative charge, and secondly oxygen wants electrons and does not donate them. In the presence of H+ ions, oxygen will oxidise silver metal to silver ions Ag+ and will even oxidise Ag+ to Ag++, so if you are looking for a mechanism whereby the reaction can be ongoing this would do. The silver ion oxidises the pathogen and O2 reoxidises the silver, but as bodily fluids are basic this reaction is likely to be slow at best. > However when a group of silver atoms are in one particle with a charge of > more > than one electron in magnitude, it will attract more than one negatively > charged > particle to it. This is necessary for it to work effectively as a > catalyst. The effect is > that as more atoms and charge are on a particle, the catalytic properties > increase rapidly. Catalytic properties can be approximated by the surface > area > of the particle once we have a group of particles for particles which are > small. However as the particle size increases further, the mass increases > by > the 3rd power or the diameter, but the area only increases by the second > power. > So we very quickly get into where the mass is growing much faster than the > surface area. Thus the effectiveness of the particle may still be > increasing, > but at a rate much lower than the mass is increasing, so the effectiveness > of > the sol for a constant ppm is rapidly decreasing with particle size beyond a > > certain point. > > Thus the most active particle size for a sol catalytically speaking is > likely in > the range of 7 to 35 atoms for a constant ppm. This corresponds to about .2 > to > .3 nm in diameter since a silver atom is approximately .1 nm in diameter." > > > Marshall I would like to see the references to the above if possible. Ivan. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). 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