> >A PWT measures electrical conductivity which increases as the ionic content >of the liquid increases. The PWT reading has a relationship to total ionic >content, not silver content. Any ions added to the water increase the >electrical conductivity and thus the PWT reading. Just bubbling air through >the water will increase the PWT reading. The notion that silver content can >be determined by a PWT is myth, not science. If you want to measure the >silver ionic concentration use an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE).
## Agreed..anything measured with a PWT gives an approximate "guess" based on variable relationships rather than direct measurement. > >> ...how come I can get as high a stable reading as 78 uS on the PWT when >> making CS? > >Probably because you have an ionic solution that is at equilibrium. > >It does not mean you have any specific amount of silver. An ISE can >determine the ionic silver concentration (but not total silver). > >> Is it because there are not enough anions present in the water to >> 'discharge' the silver cations? > >Anions do not "discharge" cations. The cations and anions both retain their >ionic charge. They are always in balance to maintain a net charge of zero. > >> there's no reason I can see that I couldn't go higher. > >Silver cation concentration cannot go higher unless the companion anions are >provided. If silver cations are added to the water by electrolysis beyond >the available anions present, the solution becomes saturated and the silver >precipitates out as metallic silver in the form of large flat flakes. ## So, a PWT is measuring the conductivity of both the cations and anions? Obviously the solution is saturated and silver is precipitating out because it does display a heavy TE indicating that metallic particles have formed...but they're small colorless particles that remain suspended, not large fat flakes. The conductivity kept on rising as suspended metallic precipitates formed faster and faster and thicker till I "chickened out" and stopped. Point is that the conductivity never stopped rising. It was certainly not a constant ratio, rather, it seemed ["seemed" because I only have eyeball observation of TE increase as an instrument and that's no way to 'quantify' anything] that conductivity gain slowed as particle formation speeded up..but conductivity never leveled off indicating that a saturation point had not been reached beyond which ONLY particles would form. However, A batch made with H2O2 as a 'starter' DID reach a maximum conductivity of 13.1 uS and large fat flat metal flakes [suitable for a metal flake paint job] DID form for hours and hours with no further rise in conductivity ...till I just gave it up. > >> [78 uS is as high as I've gone and still produced a colorless CS but >> there's no reason I can see that I couldn't go higher. TE at that reading >> is VERY strong indicating a total silver content probably beyond 150 PPM] > >You are only guessing about concentration. ## You bet. And stated as a guess. Unless you are adding citrate or >some other anion to the water it is unlikely it will get anywhere near 150 >ppm. ## Unless, of course, the total silver PPM contains significant numbers of colloidal sized metallic particles which it does. I wasn't even shooting for a 'solution', rather, a mix of solution and metallic suspension. ..but the conductivity of the 'solution' never reached a max anywhere near 13 uS..which might or might not exactly be 13 PPM ionic. I would think I'd run out of anions at some point. ?? Unless the total silver is tested by a scientifically valid method >(atomic absorption/emission) you can't be sure what you have. ## I'll agree there! ..and even then it may well be the 'best available that state of the art science can provide' guess. [a thousand times better than a PWT which is more like a wild guess caught in a trappers net and fed valium to calm it down] Ode > > >frank key > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ode Coyote" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 6:50 AM >Subject: Re: CS>WaterOz Ionic Silver - Silver Citrate > > >> If 13 PPM is the max ionic silver content [assuming a relationship between >> cations and ions..same thing only charge specific, right?] and a PWT uS >> reading bears a relationship to the quantity and concentraion of those >> ions...how come I can get as high a stable reading as 78 uS on the PWT >when >> making CS? >> Is it because there are not enough anions present in the water to >> 'discharge' the silver cations? >> [78 uS is as high as I've gone and still produced a colorless CS but >> there's no reason I can see that I couldn't go higher. TE at that reading >> is VERY strong indicating a total silver content probably beyond 150 PPM] >> >> Ode >> >> >> At 11:43 AM 9/6/2003 -0400, you wrote: >> >Silver is a cation (+). For every cation there must be a companion anion >(-) >> >present in a solution so that the net charge is zero. >> > >> >Pure water will allow about 13 ppm of silver cations using hydroxide as >the >> >anion. Pure water supplies the hydroxide. >> > >> >If the goal is to make a concentration of silver greater than 13 ppm, >then >> >some additional anions must balance the cations. The salt formed from >> >combining the cations and anions must form a water soluble compound. >Silver >> >citrate is one such water soluble compound. Other water soluble compounds >of >> >silver include silver nitrate and silver acetate. >> > >> >frank key >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Jonathan B. Britten" <[email protected]> >> >To: <[email protected]> >> >Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 2:37 AM >> >Subject: Re: CS>WaterOz Ionic Silver - Silver Citrate >> > >> > >> >> Do you have any idea of the logic behind adding the citric acid? I am >> >> not a chemist and can not venture even an uneducated guess. Is there >> >> any underlying logic apparent to a chemist? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Saturday, Sep 6, 2003, at 06:23 Asia/Tokyo, Frank Key wrote: >> >> >> >> > Ion Chromatograph has confirmed that citrate is the anion in WaterOz >> >> > Ionic >> >> > Silver. >> >> > >> >> > Silver citrate at a concentration of 100 ppm (WaterOz) can cause >> >> > argyria if >> >> > caution is not exercised in how much is consumed. >> >> > >> >> > Silver citrate can be produced by electrolysis by using a "colloidal >> >> > silver >> >> > generator" of either HVAC or DC type design. By adding citric acid to >> >> > the DI >> >> > water before starting the process, citrate will become the companion >> >> > anion >> >> > when silver cations are added to the solution by electrolysis. >> >> > >> >> > The ph will be neutral when the silver cations balance the available >> >> > citrate >> >> > anions. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > frank key >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal >> >> > silver. >> >> > >> >> > Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org >> >> > >> >> > To post, address your message to: [email protected] >> >> > >> >> > Silver-list archive: >http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html >> >> > >> >> > List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >
