Whew! You guys know a lot... Impressive work! Still would like to know what Dr. Stewart's overview is. However, with this level of tech detail I would not feel qualified to question or to pass his info on accurately. Christine
> From: Mike Monett <[email protected]> .... > Thanks for your interesting comments, Jim. > > I think Bruce knows he is scamming people. First, he emphasizes the > problems with outside interference in numerous places, such as: > > "What makes this frequency meter unique is it's extremely > sensitive sensor..." > > http://www.tainio.com/ir/frqmonitor/index.htm > > and > > "Unless you find yourself on a deserted Pacific island, the signal > you intend to measure is not the only one reaching the counter's > sensor. Once the sensor is attached to the counter, every signal > besides the one of interest becomes a source of interference and > the second sensitivity limitation. The level of these incidental > signals can be quite large, in fact, and usually is the limiting > factor in bio-frequency measurement." > > http://www.tainio.com/ir/frqmonitor/instruct.htm > > These statements give him plenty of wiggle room in case of legal > problems. > > A second item is the Concerto RFI/EMI eliminator: > > http://www.tainio.com/ir/concerto/graph.htm > > If such an instrument could be built, there would be no need for > screen rooms such as you worked in. If the Concerto worked as > claimed, companies would buy it instead of paying big bucks for a > screen room. But they don't. > > A third item is the calculations on Johnson Noise: > > "USE:" > > "This frequency counter is subject to two fundamental limitations > in it's sensitivity. The first is the noise of the electrons > moving through the circuitry of the counter input circuitry. For a > typical 3GHz bandwidth front end, this results in input noise > floor of about -70dBm. Since any desired signal to be counted must > exceed this level by 10 - 15dB so the counter can reliably count > zero crossings, the limiting sensitivity is -44 to -60dBm. This > figure is approached by this counter when operated in a laboratory > environment, but there is another, more limiting factor when > attempting to count radiated signals using the special designed > bio-frequency sensor." > > http://www.tainio.com/ir/frqmonitor/instruct.htm > > By the time you get to calculating Johnson noise, you are pretty > knowledgeable on circuit theory and electronics. So you know what > you are selling could not possible work as claimed. > > Just for fun, let's go through the calculations and verify Bruce's > accuracy. For that, we'll need an equation solver called Mercury, > written by Roger Schafley, who also wrote Borland's Eureka. > > Go to the following url > > http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/calculus/mrcry209/index.html > > and download > > http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/calculus/mrcry209/mrcry209.zip > > The nice thing about using this solver is you don't have to rewrite > all the equations when you want to solve for a different unknown. > You just enter the conversion factors, then enough known variables > to solve the equations. Mercury will rewrite the equations as needed > to solve for the unknowns. This saves a lot of time tracking down > silly math errors:) > > Anyway, here are the conversion factors for Johnson Noise: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ; Johnson Noise Calculations > > ; Bw = Noise bandwidth in Hertz (f max - f min) > ; Erms = Thermal noise voltage in Volts rms > ; Irms = Thermal noise current in Amps rms > ; kB = Boltzmann's constant (1.38 x 10-23 J/K) > ; R = Resistance in ohms > ; T = Absolute temperature (Kelvin) > > dbm = 10 * log10(Pwr / 1e-3) > Epwr = Erms^2 / R > IPwr = Irms^2 * R > Erms = sqrt(4 * kB * T * R * Bw) ; thermal noise in uv rms > Irms = sqrt((4 * kB * T * Bw) / R) ; current noise > kB = 1.38054e-23 ; Boltzmann's constant (1.38 x 10-23) > Pwr = Erms * Irms > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Here is what we know: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bw = 3e9 ; bandwidth in Hz > R = 50 ; resistance in ohms > T = 290 ; temp degrees Kelvin > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > And here is the solution: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > dbm = -73.183 > Erms = +4.9011E-05 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > So the thermal noise signal in a 50 ohm resistor and 3GHz bandwidth > is -73dBm, or 49 microvolts rms at room temperature. > > Now a typical wideband amplifier will have a noise figure of > anywhere from 2dB to 5 or even 10 dB. If we take a figure of 3dB, we > get > > -73dBm + 3dB = -70dBm > > Bruce states: > > "For a typical 3GHz bandwidth front end, this results in input > noise floor of about -70dBm." > > So we have nailed his calculation exactly. > > Next, he shows he understands the signal-to-noise ratio needed to > get reliable triggering (even though his math is a bit off:) > > "Since any desired signal to be counted must exceed this level by > 10 - 15dB so the counter can reliably count zero crossings, the > limiting sensitivity is -44 to -60dBm." > > It should read "-55 to -60dBm". But that's not important. The > significant thing is he clearly understands how the system measures > its own noise, or stray signals that happen to be in the vicinity. > > He knows there are no signals from the body, or plants, or bottles > of oil, or lumps of soil. A clear scam. > > Just to round thing off, there's more things you can do with > Mercury. Here's the Faraday equations for Silver electrolysis: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ; Colloidal Silver Calculations Bob Lee's method > > C = I * sec ; total number of Coulombs > den = I / sqin ; current density Amperes per sq in > ele = I / 1.60217733e-19; electrons per second > gm = k * I * sec ; Faraday's equation > isn = isq / 6.45e14 ; ions per square nanometer per sec > isq = ele / sqin ; ions per sq. in. per sec > k = 107.868 / 96485 ; Coulombs required per gram of silver > lt = 3.785 * gal ; convert gallons to litres > lt = ml / 1000 ; convert millilitres to litres > mg = gm * 1000 ; convert grams to milligrams > ml = 29.57 * oz ; convert ounce to milliliters > phr = ppm / hrs ; ppm per hour > ppm = mg / lt ; 1 ppm is 1 milligram per litre > sec = hrs * 3600 ; convert hours to seconds > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Here's a sample calculation for the Roby Flow Through CS Generator: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > gal = 360 > hrs = 1 > mnt = 0 ; minutes > ppm = 30 ; target ppm > sqin = 4 ; wetted area (estimated) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > and here's the solution: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Cou = 36564.262153743 > gal = 360 > gm = 40.878 > hrs = 1.0000 > I = 10.156 > lt = 1362.6 > mg = 40878 > oz = 46080 > ppm = 30 > uAin = 2539184.87 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This shows he would have to run at a current of 10 amps to generate > 30ppm in 360 gallons in 1 hr. He is obviously wrong. Another scam. > > If you are interested in copper electrolysis, the conversion factor > changes since copper is double ionized and has a different atomic > weight: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Cou = I * sec ; total number of Coulombs > esec = I / 1.60217733e-19; electrons per second > gm = k * I * sec ; Faraday's equation > isin = esec / sqin ; ions per sq. in. per sec > isnm = isin / 6.45e14 ; ions per square nanometer per sec > k = 0.5* 63.5 / 96485 ; Coulombs required per gram of copper > lt = 3.785 * gal ; convert gallons to litres > lt = ml / 1000 ; convert millilitres to litres > mg = gm * 1000 ; convert grams to milligrams > ml = 29.57 * oz ; convert ounce to milliliters > phr = ppm / hrs ; ppm per hour > ppm = mg / lt ; 1 ppm is 1 milligram per litre > sec = hrs * 3600 + mnt * 60 ; convert hours to seconds > uAin = 1e6 * I / sqin ; current density in uA per sq in > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > So Mercury makes it easy to do quick calculations and verify or > debunk different claims. > > Best Wishes, > > Mike Monett -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. 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