Richard, Your responses to me seem to go in round abouts. No insult intended however. You say the AI will in fact reach full consciousness. How on earth would that ever be possible ? You mentioned in previous posts that the AI would only be programmed with 'Nice feelings' and would only ever want to serve the good of mankind ? If the AI has it's own ability to think etc, what is stopping it from developing negative thoughts....the word 'feeling' in itself conjures up both good and bad. For instance...I am an AI...I've witnessed an act of injustice, seeing as I can feel and have consciousness my consciousness makes me feel Sad / Angry ? Hold on...that would not be possible seeing as my owner has an 'Off' button he can push to avoid me feeling that way and hay I have only been programmed with 'Nice feelings' even though my AI Creators have told the rest of the world I have a full working conscious. It's starting to sound a bit like me presenting myself to the world after my 'Hippocampus' has been removed or better yet I've had a full frontal labotomy'. And you say the AI will have thoughts and feelings about the world around it ? I shudder to think what a newly born, pure AI had to think about the world around us now. Or is that your ultimate goal in this Utopia that you see Richard ? That the AI's will become like Spiritual Masters to us and make everything 'all better' so to speak by creating little 'ME' worlds for us very confused, 'life purpose' seeking people ? Candice > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:02:35 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: > singularity@v2.listbox.com> Subject: Re: [singularity] John Searle...> > > candice schuster wrote:> > Richard,> > > > Thank you for a thought provoking > response. I admire your ability to > > think with both logic and reason. I > think what Searle was trying to get > > at was this...and I have read 'The > Chinese Room Theory'...I think that > > what he was trying to say was...if > the human brain breaks down code like > > a machine does, that does not make > it understand the logic of the code, > > it is afterall code. If you go back > to basics, for example binary code, > > it becomes almost sequence and you > are (well some of us are, like > > machines) able to understand how to put > the puzzle together again but we > > may not understand the logic behind that > code, ie: The Chinese Language > > as a whole.> > > > Although for instance > the AI has the ability to decifer the code > > and respond, it does not > understand the whole, which is funny in a way > > as you call your cause > 'Singularity'...which to me implies 'wholeness' > > for some reason. > > > > > Regarding your comment on....shock, horror, they made an AI that has > > > human cognitive thought processes, quite the contrary Richard, if you > > and > the rest of the AI community come up with the goods I would be most > > > intrigued to sit your AI down in front of me and ask it.......'Do you > > > understand the code 'SMILE' ?'> > A general point about your reply.> > I > think some people have a mental picture of what a computer does when > it is > running an AI program, in which the computer does an extremely > simple bit > of symbol manipulation, and the very "simplicity" of what is > happening in > their imagined computer is what makes them think: this > machine is not > really understanding anything at all.> > So for example, if the computer is > set up SMILE subroutine that just > pulled a few muscles around, and this > SMILE subroutine was triggered, > say, when the audio detectors picked up the > sound of someone laughing, > then this piece of code would not be > understanding or feeling a smile.> > I agree: it would not. Most other AI > researchers would agree that such > a simple piece of code is not a system > that "understands" anything. > (Not all would agree, but let's skirt that for > the moment).> > But this where a simple mental image of what goes in a > computer can be a > very misleading thing. If you thought that all AI > programs were just > the same as this, then you might think that it is just > as easy to > dismiss all AI programs with the same "This is not really > understanding" > verdict.> > If Searle had only said that he objected to > simple programs being > described as "conscious" or "self aware" then all > power to him.> > So what happens in a real AI program that actually has all > the machinery > to be intelligent? ALL of the machinery, mark you.> > Well, > it is vastly more complex: a huge amount of processing happens, > and the > "smile" response comes out for the right reasons.> > Why is that more than > just a SMILE subroutine being triggered by the > audio detectors measuring > the sound of laughter?> > Because this AI system is doing some very special > things along with all > the smiling: it is thinking about its own thoughts, > among other things, > and what we know (believe) is that when the system gets > that complicated > and has that particular mix of self-reflection in it, the > net result is > something that must talk about having an inner world of > experience. It > will talk about qualia, it will talk about feelings .... and > not because > it has been programmed to do that, but because when it tries to > > understand the world it really does genuinely find those things.> > This is > the step I mentioned in the last message I sent, and it is very > very > subtle: when you try to think about what is going on in the AI, > you come to > the inevitable conclusion that we are also "AI" systems, but > the truth is > that all AI systems (natural and artifical) possess some > special > properties: they have this thing that you describe as > subjective > consciousness.> > This is difficult to talk about in such a short space, but > the crude > summary is that if you make an AI extremely complex (with > > self-reflection, and with no direct connections between things like a > smile > and the causes of that smile) then that very complexity gives rise > to > something that was not there before: consciousness.> > > > Richard Loosemore> > > -----> This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email> To > unsubscribe or change your options, please go to:> > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; _________________________________________________________________ 100’s of Music vouchers to be won with MSN Music https://www.musicmashup.co.uk
----- This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604&id_secret=57772818-9c01dc
