Indeed - I'm with Phil. It says that the machine needs 1Kw of (probably fossil fuelled electricity) to make 1litre of oil from 1Kg of plastic (not PET bottles which form an enormous amount of our plastic). Also Phil's point about the gases is pertinent - there may be safe gases simply from processing Hydrocarbons but what about the stabilisers, plasticisers, colouring agents, etc
However, the real issue in my view is far deeper - it's our entire philosophical and dare I say it, spiritual, approach to what we want, expect and demand from our lives. As a species we use WAY too much of everything as it is and if we are to create a future with any kind of worthwhile life we are going to have to use less of everything. A LOT less. The chief thing we need to use less of is energy. Without a change of mind and heart, current mass human behaviour is simply to dream up ever more inventive and "essential" ways to consume energy (just look at all those LCD panels in almost every Estate Agent's window now or on the London escalators where we used to have paper posters to see how clever we can be). So, having extracted the oil, turned it into plastic, thrown it away, it will then be turned back into oil in this machine to be burnt releasing CO2 in addition to that from the original processing. Look at the number of electric appliances in a home in 2010 and compare (if you're old enough) to 1970. Try to imagine how many there will be in another 40 years, assuming we can still produce the energy and extract the raw materials and all the other caveats. A machine like this will prompt an approach where instead of thinking "Let's not take that oil out of the ground, let's use this oil from plastic instead" we will think "Let's take that oil out of the ground AND then let's use this oil from plastic as well. Then we can have even more things using oil - fly to our holidays for less, drive our cars for less, and yes, keep the cost of Macs lower, so that we can continue with our current lifestyle for longer after North Sea oil is gone". They are all distractions from a lower energy world that we should be moving towards. Mostly we share a need to believe that the life we have now is not simply some one-off fossil fuel powered blip, but the natural and "God given birthright" for any advanced human society. The extraordinary energy liberated for our use by the burning of fossil fuels to provide our modern way of life is the result of a one-off geological event in the very, very distant past and when it's gone it's gone. Of course even if there is plenty left we can't use it really because to do so simply increases the already dangerous levels of CO2. Because of fossil fuels, we believe, that unlike every other species living on this planet, that we are immune to all the restrictions placed on the way of life of EVERY other single creature on this Earth. It just so happens that we're the only ones who had the savvy to have plundered the ancient stored sunlight for our benefit and in less than 100 years we have used over half the planet's oil. And of course nature doesn't give something for nothing. When the first oil was was struck in Pennsylvania in 1896 you got a "gusher". It took the energy of one barrel of oil to get 100 barrels back. Now it takes around 1 barrel to get about 10 back. On a good day. Oil is getting harder to find physically as well as in terms of energy. As Colin Campbell ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Campbell_(geologist) ) has said "It is axiomatic that nobody would look for oil in 3,000 ft of water if there were anywhere easier to find it". Hence Deepwater Horizon. Hence permits to drill in the Arctic ( http://tinyurl.com/29xtph4 ). Hence proposals for deep sea drilling off the coast of Scotland ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-11443880 ). We are utterly addicted to oil and we will not let it go without having it prised from our cold, dead fingers. Very long and very off topic, but very on topic for machines making more oil ... Clambers down gingerly from soap box! ;-) Stephen On 28 Nov 2010, at 21:14, Phil Ward wrote: > GIlly, > > I hate to raise it but isn't there an old maxim that says something that > appears to be to good to be true probably is? > > There's so little hard data to be had about the oil from plastic machine that > it raises far more questions than it provides answers. Questions that occur > to me are to wonder how much energy the conversion process consumes. Heating > a significant mass of plastic to well past boiling point requires significant > energy. Quite possibly more than is then available from the oil generated. > I'd also have serious worries about the safety of the machine in terms of its > "exhaust" gasses. Modern plastics are full of numerous additives, some of > which are pretty nasty once heated and released. Bubbling the gas through > water will I fear not scrub-out the nasties so what happens to them – either > short term or long term? Also, what happens to the plastic residue, a soup of > potentially nasty stuff? > > There's also the fundamental point that converting waste plastic into oil, > while potentially extending the life of our oil-based economy, does nothing > to combat warming. It will likely make it worse. We need to burn less oil, > not more. Plastic, waste or otherwise, locks-up a fair bit of carbon. > Converting it to oil (and using significant energy to do so) which is then > simply "burned" in CO2 producing processes is surely the last thing we should > be doing. > > Sorry this is so far off-topic. I'll pipe down now. > > Phil > > -- > Phil Ward > Skype: aphilw > E: [email protected] > W: www.philward.biz > W: www.myspace.com/philwardmusic > > • Freelance writer and product designer. > • Exclusive UK distributor for Veillette Guitars. www.veilletteguitars.com. > • Consultant Designer of the Acoustic Energy AE22 nearfield monitor. > • Regular contributor to Sound on Sound and Performing Musician magazines. > > On 27 Nov 2010, at 15:34, Gillian Snoxall wrote: > >> >> I have Jason's permission to send this non-Mac subject to the list – just >> this once! >> >> This wonderful invention is the best news the world has had for a long time, >> and it deserves to get as much publicity as possible. Please do your bit by >> passing it on to all your families and friends, and ask them to do the same. >> >> http://ourworld.unu.edu/en/plastic-to-oil-fantastic/ >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Gilly "We need to be hungry for life and less hungry for money" - Unknown -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sussex Mac User Group" group. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/smug?hl=en-GB.
