The Americans have gone industrial on this and it's up & running in Italy too.
Best, Peter On 29 Nov 2010, at 17:23, Stephen Watson wrote: > Indeed - I'm with Phil. > > It says that the machine needs 1Kw of (probably fossil fuelled electricity) > to make 1litre of oil from 1Kg of plastic (not PET bottles which form an > enormous amount of our plastic). Also Phil's point about the gases is > pertinent - there may be safe gases simply from processing Hydrocarbons but > what about the stabilisers, plasticisers, colouring agents, etc > > However, the real issue in my view is far deeper - it's our entire > philosophical and dare I say it, spiritual, approach to what we want, expect > and demand from our lives. As a species we use WAY too much of everything as > it is and if we are to create a future with any kind of worthwhile life we > are going to have to use less of everything. A LOT less. The chief thing we > need to use less of is energy. Without a change of mind and heart, current > mass human behaviour is simply to dream up ever more inventive and > "essential" ways to consume energy (just look at all those LCD panels in > almost every Estate Agent's window now or on the London escalators where we > used to have paper posters to see how clever we can be). So, having extracted > the oil, turned it into plastic, thrown it away, it will then be turned back > into oil in this machine to be burnt releasing CO2 in addition to that from > the original processing. > > Look at the number of electric appliances in a home in 2010 and compare (if > you're old enough) to 1970. Try to imagine how many there will be in another > 40 years, assuming we can still produce the energy and extract the raw > materials and all the other caveats. A machine like this will prompt an > approach where instead of thinking "Let's not take that oil out of the > ground, let's use this oil from plastic instead" we will think "Let's take > that oil out of the ground AND then let's use this oil from plastic as well. > Then we can have even more things using oil - fly to our holidays for less, > drive our cars for less, and yes, keep the cost of Macs lower, so that we can > continue with our current lifestyle for longer after North Sea oil is gone". > They are all distractions from a lower energy world that we should be moving > towards. Mostly we share a need to believe that the life we have now is not > simply some one-off fossil fuel powered blip, but the natural and "God given > birthright" for any advanced human society. The extraordinary energy > liberated for our use by the burning of fossil fuels to provide our modern > way of life is the result of a one-off geological event in the very, very > distant past and when it's gone it's gone. Of course even if there is plenty > left we can't use it really because to do so simply increases the already > dangerous levels of CO2. Because of fossil fuels, we believe, that unlike > every other species living on this planet, that we are immune to all the > restrictions placed on the way of life of EVERY other single creature on this > Earth. It just so happens that we're the only ones who had the savvy to have > plundered the ancient stored sunlight for our benefit and in less than 100 > years we have used over half the planet's oil. > > And of course nature doesn't give something for nothing. When the first oil > was was struck in Pennsylvania in 1896 you got a "gusher". It took the energy > of one barrel of oil to get 100 barrels back. Now it takes around 1 barrel to > get about 10 back. On a good day. Oil is getting harder to find physically as > well as in terms of energy. As Colin Campbell ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Campbell_(geologist) ) has said "It is > axiomatic that nobody would look for oil in 3,000 ft of water if there were > anywhere easier to find it". Hence Deepwater Horizon. Hence permits to drill > in the Arctic ( http://tinyurl.com/29xtph4 ). Hence proposals for deep sea > drilling off the coast of Scotland ( > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-11443880 ). > We are utterly addicted to oil and we will not let it go without having it > prised from our cold, dead fingers. > > > Very long and very off topic, but very on topic for machines making more oil > ... > > Clambers down gingerly from soap box! ;-) > > Stephen > > > On 28 Nov 2010, at 21:14, Phil Ward wrote: > >> GIlly, >> >> I hate to raise it but isn't there an old maxim that says something that >> appears to be to good to be true probably is? >> >> There's so little hard data to be had about the oil from plastic machine >> that it raises far more questions than it provides answers. Questions that >> occur to me are to wonder how much energy the conversion process consumes. >> Heating a significant mass of plastic to well past boiling point requires >> significant energy. Quite possibly more than is then available from the oil >> generated. I'd also have serious worries about the safety of the machine in >> terms of its "exhaust" gasses. Modern plastics are full of numerous >> additives, some of which are pretty nasty once heated and released. Bubbling >> the gas through water will I fear not scrub-out the nasties so what happens >> to them – either short term or long term? Also, what happens to the plastic >> residue, a soup of potentially nasty stuff? >> >> There's also the fundamental point that converting waste plastic into oil, >> while potentially extending the life of our oil-based economy, does nothing >> to combat warming. It will likely make it worse. We need to burn less oil, >> not more. Plastic, waste or otherwise, locks-up a fair bit of carbon. >> Converting it to oil (and using significant energy to do so) which is then >> simply "burned" in CO2 producing processes is surely the last thing we >> should be doing. >> >> Sorry this is so far off-topic. I'll pipe down now. >> >> Phil >> >> -- >> Phil Ward >> Skype: aphilw >> E: [email protected] >> W: www.philward.biz >> W: www.myspace.com/philwardmusic >> >> • Freelance writer and product designer. >> • Exclusive UK distributor for Veillette Guitars. www.veilletteguitars.com. >> • Consultant Designer of the Acoustic Energy AE22 nearfield monitor. >> • Regular contributor to Sound on Sound and Performing Musician magazines. >> >> On 27 Nov 2010, at 15:34, Gillian Snoxall wrote: >> >>> >>> I have Jason's permission to send this non-Mac subject to the list – just >>> this once! >>> >>> This wonderful invention is the best news the world has had for a long >>> time, and it deserves to get as much publicity as possible. Please do your >>> bit by passing it on to all your families and friends, and ask them to do >>> the same. >>> >>> http://ourworld.unu.edu/en/plastic-to-oil-fantastic/ >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Gilly > > > "We need to be hungry for life and less hungry for money" - Unknown > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Sussex Mac User Group" group. > To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/smug?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sussex Mac User Group" group. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/smug?hl=en-GB.
