That may change with Apple’s acquisition I suppose. They will let us know I’m sure!
You meet your destiny on the road you take to avoid it. ~ Carl Jung > On 5 Jan 2022, at 22:55, Virginia Routh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thanks, Stephen. I tried Apple Music also Spotify but neither have an > extensive catalogue of classical music. > >>> On 5 Jan 2022, at 22:01, 'Stephen Watson' via Sussex Mac User Group >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> Very interesting Toby and all. 🎼 >> >> Atmos/Spatial should sound great on headphones. We have two ears and no >> matter how many speakers and channels in your lounge they go into our brain >> via two ears and contain the information for up, down, back, front, a little >> bit behind and every other nuance. Years after we first had binaural/dummy >> head recordings I’m not sure why we’ve not been able to enjoy this for >> years, at least as an option as it obviously wouldn’t work that well on >> speakers. Rather like 3D/Stereoscopic pictures which I’ve loved since I was >> a kid. A young kid, anyway! >> >> I’ll check out Blondie then … >> >> Virginia, I don’t know if you were aware but Apple bought up a company a >> while ago that specialised in streaming (I think!) classical music which >> treats composers, movements, acts, and all the rest better than Apple do at >> present so it’s expected that it will find its way into Apple Music - maybe >> in iOS 16. >> >> There’s an interesting article on MacStories.net talking about Last.fm >> (which I knew nothing about until a few days ago) along with multiple >> alternative apps that focus on different musical areas from Apple’s own app, >> if such things take your fancy. >> >> Cheers, >> Stephen >> >> You meet your destiny on the road you take to avoid it. ~ Carl Jung >> >>>> On 5 Jan 2022, at 21:14, Toby Leighton <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>> >>> Once tunes are showing as “matched” in Apple Music (Which it does through >>> audio analysis fingerprinting voodoo) whatever the original format was it >>> then does an incredibly basic decision of if the bitrate was 128kbps or >>> less it will swap it with their version. I have loads of ripped cds that I >>> actually went back through and converted on batch away from ALAC into AIF >>> uncompressed (because long reasons) so those tracks when opened on another >>> computer like my work PC will download or stream as either the lossless DRM >>> /256kbps apple format (if they match with the library) OR a 256kbps AAC >>> file that I guess Apple encode themselves when you uploaded from the >>> original computer. So in those cases where I get an album in a lossless >>> format on Bandcamp from someone who isn’t in Apple‘s library it will switch >>> it down for a worse file (same file, lower bitrate but sounds fine to me) >>> personally at least it’s never taken one version of a song and given me >>> back a completely different version of that song. Not saying it couldn’t >>> happen though, and I’m careful to keep my originals backed up. >>> >>> It’s all such a rabbit hole! But at least I feel like I’ve wrangled >>> control of my library and Apple Music compliments it with the sync >>> convenience and the benefit of more things to listen to on a whim. >>> >>> A different minefield/bugbear I’ve come across is where I’ve purchased CDs >>> and records lots of labels and shops will give you a download of a 320kbps >>> MP3 when you place the order. Having analysed some with the utility SPEK >>> I’ve seen these officially purchased files have a hard 20khz cutoff, >>> whereas the Apple Music matched version of the same file when analysed has >>> the full dynamic range, but “only” at 256kbps, or lossless (but I can’t >>> analyse those lossless due to the drm). In those cases I’d rather have >>> apples version than the one I bought.. All this has somehow taught me or >>> conditioned me to just listen and enjoy the music and try not to dwell too >>> much on the technicals. >>> >>> When I first subscribed on a trial I fully intended to cancel and go onto >>> the next trial of soundcloud, then the next trial of spotify, then the next >>> trial of YouTube, then the next trial of amazon, and so on for ever. But at >>> some point the Apple offering just clicked for me and the recent addition >>> of lossless sealed the deal. >>> >>> I’ve only listened to apples ATMOS files through ordinary headphones so >>> I’ll reserve judgement, however pre-Apple I’ve listened to surround mixes >>> from a few producers downmixed to “ordinary” 5.1 home cinema DTS and >>> enjoyed the clarity and spacing, but I have to reserve judgement until I >>> get a real atmos system to listen to. There are producers who I follow who >>> I know have created atmos versions of some of their albums but they aren’t >>> available on Apple, also going back in time there are the 70s quadrophonic >>> mixes of Pink Floyd and their SACD 5.1 mixes which could be Atmos mastered >>> but aren’t (yet?). It could be a gimmick like 3D TVs and cinema or it could >>> become standard practice. Will definitely check out Moby Reprise though at >>> least with headphones for now. Interestingly it doesn’t come up for me in >>> Apples Atmos playlists yet there it is when I go directly searching for >>> Moby. Did The Doors really master “Riders on The Storm” with Surround in >>> mind back in 1974? Or Blondie Hanging on the telephone and Call me? It >>> reminds me of 3D cinema post Avatar when lots of movies were in 3D for the >>> sake of it, digitally upscaled to 3D. I’m sure the difference comes through >>> in the finished article when it was the producers intention to be listened >>> to in surround from the outset rather than tagging on to the latest fad or >>> some posthumous studio magic. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 at 19:21, 'Stephen Watson' via Sussex Mac User Group >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> When I signed up to AM it was frustrating to find that there were albums >>>> with missing tracks which were available to buy on iTunes but not to >>>> stream on AM! Grrrrr. That doesn’t seem to be much of an issue now, it’s >>>> usually that the entire album is missing even if it’s in iTunes. >>>> >>>> Also, thanks for the info about compilations - I didn’t realise that when >>>> playing one of those tracks from, say, Ricochet that it pulled the correct >>>> artwork from the collection. A boxed set, yes. 😃 >>>> >>>> For all its foibles, I find it works really well nearly all the time but >>>> is very frustrating if you go to play an album that’s vanished, but that >>>> hasn’t happened in ages now. Whew! >>>> >>>> Happy listening one and all. >>>> Stephen >>>> >>>> P.S. Moby’s Spatial Audio/Atmos album where he covers his own songs(!) is >>>> the only album I’ve heard which is actually better in Atmos, the others >>>> I’ve heard sound rather muffled and muddy. What have been others’ >>>> experience and any recommendations? >>>> >>>> You meet your destiny on the road you take to avoid it. ~ Carl Jung >>>> >>>>>> On 5 Jan 2022, at 11:25, 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Ah, this is useful information, about the DRM on lossless. I did suspect >>>>> there would be surprises. ANd the distinction between iTunes store and >>>>> Apple Music is one I'd missed - thanks. >>>>> >>>>> As for loss of tracks, I've definitely lost things by replacement; I have >>>>> plenty of AAC versions (192) of something I know I ripped as apple >>>>> lossless from a Cd or vinyl that has invisibly swapped itself out. More >>>>> frustrating (because AAC is pretty good) is when stuff simply vanishes >>>>> altogether. I verified this happened with about 5% of my songs when I >>>>> migrated from my old machine (which is still sitting there under the desk >>>>> so not lost forever). >>>>> >>>>> It's the time and effort of curating it that drives me mad, working out >>>>> which ones have gone astray or been duplicated (one lossless, one AAC >>>>> <scream>). >>>>> >>>>> Thanks everyone for chipping in. I'll give it a go after double-checking >>>>> my back-up strategy! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> J >>>>> >>>>> On 5 Jan 2022, at 0:38, Toby Leighton wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Apple Music plan includes iTunes Match, so basically everything will >>>>> behave for you exactly as it already does! >>>>> Apple Music and the ITunes store are actually two separate things, so >>>>> some music isn't available in apple music plan, but is available to buy >>>>> in itunes, I think both vary by region too, so you may be able to use a >>>>> VPN or proxy to make yourself appear to be in a different country and >>>>> have more music available (never tried) >>>>> >>>>> I've read horror stories of people having their precious rare bootlegs >>>>> replaced with studio versions, or Rap/Hiphop with explicit lyrics being >>>>> replaced with clean versions, but I've never experienced this myself or >>>>> know any people in real life this has happened to. I've annoyingly >>>>> purchased music on places like bandcamp and had say 9/10 songs match and >>>>> 1 be persistent and refuse to match, so in my experience the audio >>>>> detection algorithm is pretty strict. the odd unmatched song is not a >>>>> huge deal but I like my library to be orderly so it sometimes bugs me, >>>>> but I can't hear the difference which is the really important thing. >>>>> >>>>> Another thing that isn't obvious and may affect playback on other devices >>>>> or software, is that the traditional (256kbps) matched audio is DRM free, >>>>> but the new lossless audio + dolby formats are never DRM free, even when >>>>> matched to music you already own. >>>>> >>>>> Also once or twice I've stopped my apple music subscription, waited a few >>>>> months and got the 3 months for the price of 1 offer again. your library >>>>> doesn't vanish in a puff of smoke if you cancel the subscription, the >>>>> apple music songs are all there but greyed unplayable out because you >>>>> don't have the decryption keys any more. I know a lot of people get >>>>> scared that everything could go, and thinking back to the days of the >>>>> hard disk based ipod, where if you connect it to someone else computer >>>>> you are one accidental misclick away from losing everything it is >>>>> certainly a valid concern! I do make regular backups of my whole library >>>>> to an external hard drive just in case. >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 23:02, 'Stephen Watson' via Sussex Mac User Group >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can’t vouch for uploading items which may have the same name by the >>>>>> same artist that is on Apple Music already as the only ones I have >>>>>> recorded and uploaded were because they did not exist on AM. If you keep >>>>>> backups of all your bootlegs (as it sounds as though you do) then you >>>>>> should be fine if it goes pear-shaped. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can definitely upload your own recordings and then stream them back >>>>>> down, for example my copy of “You’ve got to be a hustler if you want to >>>>>> get on!” by Sue Wilkinson is inexplicably not in the AM catalogue but I >>>>>> can play it on all my devices after recording the 7” vinyl myself and >>>>>> then uploading it to AM. 😀 >>>>>> >>>>>> One of my albums was Ricochet & I had it on vinyl since release. Joined >>>>>> up to AM and Ricochet was there so I added it to my library. When I went >>>>>> to play it next it said it was no longer available, or similar! It >>>>>> turned out that the Album had been removed as an individual album, but >>>>>> had been subsumed into “Tangerine Dream - the Virgin Years 1970 to >>>>>> 1978”, or something like that. Ricochet has now become two tracks on a >>>>>> “compilation album”. So, I created a playlist called Ricochet, added >>>>>> just those two tracks that comprise Ricochet taken from the compilation >>>>>> and set the playlist’s artwork to the Ricochet cover. Longwinded but I >>>>>> effectively re-created the album. I have a “virtual albums” folder which >>>>>> contains several playlists like this. Joan Armatrading’s “Show Some >>>>>> Emotion” album is not in the AM catalogue(!) but all but one of its >>>>>> tracks are present scattered across about 3 compilation albums so I’ve >>>>>> made another virtual album of that. It’s very tedious and is the price >>>>>> of streaming … >>>>>> >>>>>> Apart from this silliness, which I suspect is out of Apple’s hands and >>>>>> in those of the labels and copyright holders, I’ve loved it - pretty >>>>>> much every piece of music I’ve ever had at home (bar a few tracks) I can >>>>>> now listen to when I want in the car or train or bus. That’s worth the >>>>>> annoyances. And the fee … plus of course, I can add anything interesting >>>>>> that I hear. >>>>>> >>>>>> You may like to try out the “Albums” app. It doesn’t understand my >>>>>> “virtual albums” as Apple’s app does, but it’s got some brilliant >>>>>> features and treats your music like a collection of … albums which is >>>>>> how I’ve always seen my collection. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Stephen >>>>>> >>>>>> You meet your destiny on the road you take to avoid it. ~ Carl Jung >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3 Jan 2022, at 21:42, 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is useful, thanks. I didn't realise you could upload (you can with >>>>>>> Match, I thought Apple Music just gave you free access to their >>>>>>> catalogue). My issue is that I have a. ridiculous number of live >>>>>>> bootlegs, sometimes the same gig but different recordings and so on, >>>>>>> and I worried they would get overwritten/'upgraded'. I would be lucky >>>>>>> to find them again, you can't buy them anywhere. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Most of mine was also digitised the hard way from vinyl or cassette >>>>>>> years ago, so it gets weird when the iTunes track has a slightly >>>>>>> different title (eg 'German remix version'). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't quite understand the Tangerine Dream story (glances over at my >>>>>>> copy of Ricochet). Do you mean you had it beforehand and then it got >>>>>>> 'reorganised'? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have definitely had iTunes/Music lose stuff, I suspect when I move >>>>>>> everything to a new computer. Entire albums disappear, or odd songs. I >>>>>>> have a separate non-destructive back-up folder that basically copies >>>>>>> anything that's ever in my Music folder. I go into it regularly, >>>>>>> muttering 'I'm sure I had this...'. 70% of the time I find it there >>>>>>> (this also happened recently with TV/Films when I finally moved >>>>>>> everything over from my old computer); thus the paranoia. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for this. It does sound like my library is (fairly) safe;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3 Jan 2022, at 19:54, 'Stephen Watson' via Sussex Mac User Group >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’ve tried to replicate, as closely as I can, my entire CD and vinyl >>>>>>> collection on Apple Music and have mostly done it (despite >>>>>>> Apple’s/licencee’s efforts to thwart me 😐). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Firstly, I’ve never had match or the equivalent to can’t speak for that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have my entire music library downloaded onto my iPhone, but only my >>>>>>> library on my iPad and iMac, meaning that I can play anything on my >>>>>>> iPhone with no internet and I stream it on the other two. Mostly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The only difference is where Apple Music didn’t have the music I had >>>>>>> which meant I actually used Free Audacity to record the missing vinyl >>>>>>> onto my Mac and then uploaded it to Apple Music or bought the CD where >>>>>>> possible and did the same thing. You can upload your own music to the >>>>>>> cloud and then stream it to other devices which is what I do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You have to be a detective sometimes! I had three Tangerine Dreams >>>>>>> albums in my library when I first signed up. A month or so later I went >>>>>>> to play one only to find it wasn’t there 😬. What had happened was than >>>>>>> Virgin had put all the early TD albums on one mega-album and removed >>>>>>> the original albums. To get around this I then setup playlists for the >>>>>>> “missing” albums which allows me to treat them as albums in their own >>>>>>> right instead of “tracks 3 and 4 on the Early Years”. I can set my own >>>>>>> cover art too! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are tracks you can buy, but cannot stream and there are >>>>>>> definitely some weird licensing issues for Apple Music but that is the >>>>>>> way the music companies roll I think, but it’s frustrating and never >>>>>>> happened when I owned the music (either physically or via iTunes). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, I now have 98% of all the music I’ve ever had on my phone to >>>>>>> take and listen to anywhere (including all my 7” singles) and it’s a >>>>>>> small price to pay for that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Happy to answer any questions if I can. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stephen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You meet your destiny on the road you take to avoid it. ~ Carl Jung >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3 Jan 2022, at 18:43, 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi folks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is one of those 'surely this is easy but no one talks about it on >>>>>>>> the web' questions. I have a carefully collected music collection, >>>>>>>> mostly lossless, often rare and hard to replace. I've had Apple Match >>>>>>>> for years to get stuff on all devices and I've been wondering about >>>>>>>> signing up for Apple Music now that it's (sometimes) lossless but >>>>>>>> can't pin down what happens with the following: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> what happens to the music on my iphone (currently nynced only to the >>>>>>>> Mac)? Will it still be kept on the phone or it it all 'forced' to be >>>>>>>> streamed? The signal on my train journey is lousy so streaming is not >>>>>>>> an option. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> what happens to the library on my Mac? Is there still such a thing as >>>>>>>> 'my library' I can search within? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> can I still buy a song? I don't plat to use it for ever, just to see >>>>>>>> if the 'related' introduces me to more than my (lets be honest) >>>>>>>> 80s-focussed collection;) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Grateful for any answers from those who've taken the plunge. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/A1C0029D-5BD3-4C81-93BE-DF47E406D1A4%40me.com. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/642B25EF-B9F6-4BAC-901D-B4E569FA0FAE%40icloud.com. >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/0DFA4717-1714-4B5A-96E3-30C0074B34B5%40me.com. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/251CE924-7E89-417A-A55F-D2AF091B4532%40icloud.com. >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/CAEjhqLTqP%3DER%3DYhH1BCvawuNF10Xk6rbkuu-uUsQeB3MLF7hOQ%40mail.gmail.com. >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/BAFC3F47-7B67-48C9-8550-81435043798A%40me.com. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/4D601FDB-9DDC-4159-8CDE-5712498BAB3D%40icloud.com. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/CAEjhqLRW_DujT4rggzkmihohSR1CV-2-DkY2Cq7TmA_mRTRy8g%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Sussex Mac User Group" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/AE9E9D7B-BF25-4D6E-91AA-E6420728BB5D%40icloud.com. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Sussex Mac User Group" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smug/81AD2642-8EE4-48F3-807B-2DBF7F31BBD7%40gmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sussex Mac User Group" group. 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