Is this "Social Credit" concept different from technocracy?   CS

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:23:48 -0700 Keith Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Wes,
> 
> It seems to me that both you and Michael are so wrapped up in 
> preaching your
> own brands of economic reform that you have not paid any attention 
> to the
> fundamental concept and precept of Social Credit which are, as I 
> understand
> them:
>     --Social wealth accumulates (or can, if conditions permit) by 
> virtue of
> natural human strivings, mainly via embodied technology and 
> culture;
>     --The vehicle for equitable sharing of this accumulation is NOT 
> via
> taxation and government spending, but rather via monetary policy.
> 
> I invite corrections from the Social Credit experts.
> 
> Keith
> 
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 5:54 PM
> Subject: Fw: RE: [SOCIAL CREDIT] "Fungibility"
> 
> 
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > In the forwarded message below, Bill Ryan chides Michael
> > Bindner for his opinion that the benefits of a social dividend
> > must be deferred "until the debt is paid off and the scope
> > of government reduced."  This exchange reminds me of
> > "The Screwtape Letters," 1943, by C. S. Lewis, Professor
> > of Medieval and Renaissance Literature at Cambridge
> > University, in which the Senior Devil "Screwtape" chides
> > his nephew "Wormwood" about the hazards of being
> > too specific when teaching human beings what they
> > should never think about.  In this age of reason, only
> > one thing remains that the congregations of our Judaic,
> > Christian, Islamic, and Protestant tradition are forbidden
> > to think about: namely, the "geometric relationship"
> > between the fixed costs of acquiring a productive asset,
> > the fixed cost of sustaining the asset when in production,
> > and the variable costs of production over the useful life
> > of that productive asset.  Unfortunately, that "geometric
> > relationship" occurs twice in every human enterprise, first
> > in the capital asset at 90 degrees and again in the human
> > asset at 270 degrees in the macro model, Fig4-3.gif  But the
> > "geometric relationship" remains invisible until we view it
> > in the micro model, FIG7-9D.GIF and Fig8.1.gif
> >
> > But again, I must agree with Bill that Michael is mistaken,
> > and particularly with Bill's view that "without social credit,
> > the debt and scope of government can only grow."  It will
> > appear to grow exponentially if plotted on a linear/linear
> > scale, as shown in FIG10B.GIF  Or, it will appear to grow
> > linearly when plotted on a log/linear scale, as shown by
> > Fig10d.gif, on the URL below.  And what is the CPI, plotted
> > on those two charts, but the ratio; of  [money (M1) ($/year)
> > disbursed by the capital plant to the congregations of
> > employees],  to,  [the Gross Domestic Product (M1) ($/year)
> > delivered to the congregations of employees for
> > consumption or accumulation during the same period of time.]
> >
> > What other explanation can be given for the "natural inflation
> > rate" of 2.3%/year but this:  Douglas' flow "A" of money (M1)
> > ($/year) is increasing faster than the counter flow "A" of goods
> > and services ($/year) by 2.3%/year.  The government's three
> > 20th century monetary interventions in the economy are clearly
> > illustrated on Fig10d.gif and on Fig2-3b.gif on the URL below.
> >
> > The first installment of "Social Credit" in the US was the
> > universal public school system, which the US established
> > in the 19th century and developed to its present stature.
> > In that agrarian society, the first installment of "Social
> > Credit" was funded by local property taxes which were
> > a direct 10% tax on annual income from a family farm.
> > Using the US economy data in my post of 08-27-03, with
> > sixth grade arithmetic, the annual cost of twelve years
> > of public education and other lessor installments of
> > social credit, at today's prices, is roughly as follows:
> >
> > First installment of Social Credit in the 1800s,
> > 1 to 12 public education. Cost = 285 X 12/77 X $6,500/year
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  = $288.7 Billion/year
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = 2.9% of GDP
> >
> > Second installment of Social Credit in 1913,
> > income tax exemptions per dependent,
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  Cost = 285 X $2,000/year X 15%
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = $85.5 Billion/year
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = 0.86% of GDP
> >
> > Recently added child tax credit.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  Cost = 285 X 17/77 X $1,000/year
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = $62.9 Billion/year
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = 0.63% of GDP
> > 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > Total US Social Credit to date. = 4.39% of GDP, or not
> > quite half of the first Tithe listed in Figure 7 of
> > FIG7-9D.GIF and in the subject index of the Scofield
> > Reference Bible and The Pentateuch and Haftorahs,
> > as follows:
> >
> >  "Scofield Reference Bible"     The Pentateuch and Haftorahs"
> >  Edited by C. I. Scofield, D.D.     Edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, 
> C.H.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  Late Chief Rabbi of The British
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Empire ~~~~~~~~~
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ TITHES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >    Item                             Date               Page #
> > Item
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        ~~~~~~             ~~~~~          ~~~~
> > PAID BY ABRAHAM TO
> > MELCHIZEDEK
> > Gen. 14. 20;               B.C. 1913                  ?
> > Heb. 7. 6                     A.D.  64                   ?
> >
> > DUE TO GOD:
> > Gen. 28. 22;              B..C. 1760                 ?
> > Num. 18. 26;             B. C. 1471               638   (Num. 
> XVI-XVIII)
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > DUE TO THE LEVITES:
> > Num. 18. 21;            B. C. 1471               647 f (Num. 
> XVIII,
> > 21-24)
> > 2 Chr. 31. 5;             B. C.   624                 ?
> > Neh.10. 37;              B. C.   445                 ?
> > Heb. 7. 5                  A. D.     64                ?
> > ~~~~~~~~~ ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 719   (Num. XXXV)
> >
> > FOR THE FEASTS AND THE POOR    810 f (Deut. XIV, 22-27)
> > Deut. 14. 23, 28       B. C. 1451         (the so-called "second 
> tithe")
> > ~~~~~~~~ ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 860 f (Deut. XIV, 22)
> > ~~~~~~~~ ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (Page 862 f, "The Law was to be
> > ~~~~~~~~ ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  written on twelve stones
> > ~~~~~~~~ ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ at Mt. Elba.)
> > ~~~~~~~~ ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~1005 (Malachi III, 7-12)
> > ~~~~~~~~ ? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~1006 (Malachi III, 10)
> >
> >  Two milestones marking the loss of the whole law,
> > but don't forget that the US became a world super
> > power while implementing only about half of the
> > first tithe.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > ACCESSION AND FOLLY OF REHOBOAM
> > 1 Kings 12. 1-33      B. C.  975
> > (Rehoboam abandoned the Law and the ten
> > northern tribes of Israel were lost to history,
> > leaving only Judah, Benjamin, and the Levites
> > to convey the Bible as we know it.)
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > DECREE OF ARTAXERXES IN EZRA's BEHALF.
> > Ezra 7, 24                  B. C. 457
> > (The Thirteenth Tribe, the Levites, was made exempt
> > from paying the first (Lord's) tithe.)
> >
> > (The Torah, the rest of the Old Testament, and all of the
> > New Testament presents a sustained lament for the loss
> > of the whole Law.  Christianity received only the
> > incomplete Ten Commandments (the Decalogue) of
> > which Dr. J. H. Hertz said, on page 401, "it laid down the
> > foundations of religion and morality, but was not in itself
> > the entire structure of human duty,")
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Screwtape concluded his first letter to Wormwood so:
> >
> >    "Do remember you are there to fuddle him.  From the
> >    way some of you young fiends talk. any one would
> >    suppose it was your job to teach!
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your affectionate uncle,
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Screwtape"
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Wes Burt
> >
> > To further explore "The Optimum Policy" illustrated
> > at URL <http://www.epie.org/cyber-soc/default.htm>
> > please join me at list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
> >
> > --------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:28:38 -0700
> > Subject: RE: [SOCIAL CREDIT]  "Fungibility"
> >
> > I'm astonished by this reply, Michael.  The reflux
> > from the "credits" are applied to debt thereby
> > reducing the debt.  Unlike orthodox finance, the
> > credits do not increase debt but reduce it.  The
> > "scope of government" is quite another matter.  To a
> > great extent government has had to grow to fill the
> > gap caused by deficiencies in the financial system.
> >
> > Without social credit, the debt and scope of
> > government can only grow exponentially in respect to
> > the non-government sector to the point where the non-
> > government sector vanishes.  Finance and government
> > merge into a centralized system without check or
> > balance.  Concepts like individual initiative,
> > private ownership and free markets become
> > meaningless.
> >
> >
> > ----original message from Michael Bindner----
> > Thank you [Wes] for your response and your kind words.
> >
> > I would think that $5,000 is a bit much at this
> > point, given the large US debt and the involvement of
> > the bank and credit system in its care and feeding.
> > When FDR could have put forward a credit, the debt
> > was relatively low and the government small.  This is
> > no longer the case.  Until the debt is paid off and
> > the scope of government reduced, I cannot see paying
> > a credit of that (or any other) size.
> >
> > Michael Bindner
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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