By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor ref
the idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think he’s done a
sterling effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors the framework of
the qLib library. I’m also a fan of his work for -
http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ - and he’s a regular helping hand on the
Discord server. That could be useful for sense checking emerging ideas
against the wider consensus of the Houdini community.
*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Andy
Nicholas
*Sent:* 29 March 2017 15:50
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to
maintain speed imho.
Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game
changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much
you can do with it, and like you said, it's super fast. It's
particularly useful in doing generative geometry and other low level
geo operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex is so much more
robust and powerful.
And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!
A
On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)
I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I
wanted to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to
bother people to much, plus you have to be sure that what you're
asking has sense, and sometimes you just want to find yourself ^^
I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage.
Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about
clumping hair on vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but
very fast without any for each sop and a little bit of array.
Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want
to maintain speed imho.
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.
> I miss the "sort array with key"
You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use
the Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce
indices, which you then feed to the "Array Reorder". Maybe
that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone could make. Just
encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.
I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the
complexity and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do
anything, but where the heck do I start". Much of which is
over the linquistical issues like, for example, the
disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and
what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people
start putting together Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the
first noticeable thing will be the Softimage style names that
are used!
Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a
foreign language? Takes a while to get fluent.
A
On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for
vop (not vex).
Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took
me time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)
Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a
limitation when coming to sort those vertex.
I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but
an arbitrary integer attribute I'm not sure I can.
I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building
and sorting.
I miss the "sort array with key"
I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over
complicated.
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
<[email protected]
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>>
wrote:
Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)
Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you
have the added benefit of being able to see the arrays
directly in Houdini using the Geometry Spreadsheet,
rather than turning on the visualisation in Softimage
and have them disappearing off the top of the screen.
You can do Python style array slicing in VEX too which
is awesomely useful.
Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest
question to try and understand where Houdini is
lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to see the issues.
A
On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:
I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes
as much sense as in Softimage… Andy??? You are the
expert here.
jb
On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest
difference with ICE arrays and Houdini arrays?
In both you have ways of adding, removing,
sorting, etc. elements in the array in
whatever context you're in, no?
A
On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was
the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all
those tutorial with people using the
Attribute transfer, I tried to use it
myself and was horrified : I found it slow
and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location +
dotproduct method, and imho that's by far
the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I
wire it in Houdini way of working ?". I
came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA
(which is simply the vop compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is that
it's able to transfer values of any
context (point, prim, you name it, ..)
I'll try to record something.
I think there's a large place for
improvement in H for everything that
concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot
of things to do with arrays , hence the
speed. And the ice tools were super
efficient for that. In Houdini, there's a
kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature
is looping through points it is an
"enough" solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that
unless you're a vex/C/python programmer I
find it very time consumming to
understand. Plus there are no doc samples
or tut, a part from the one from Mikael
Perterssen
http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That
makes me wonder if other people really
consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and
Mikael way to deal with States, hell, I'm
200% on the ice method.
2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
I'm a morron, but I'd love to have
exclusive pure Ice minded HDA library.
2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Thought I'd pipe in since tekano
got invoked, also slowly
attemting to transition and agree
with most already said and thanks,
is already a huge pointer to as
yet unknown aspects and features
of how complex houdini is.
also would be interested in a
more 'compounded' way of learning
Houdini like ice was introduced.
Everything a compound node of
nested compound logic with exact
same UI logic and Core nodes and
complexity under the hood but
still accessable in a single click
and an 'easy for artists' ability
to follow the logic flow into
further nested compounds and see
how it was made. Not so with
houdini yet 😎 open one compound
and is equivalent to inside of the
neighborhood telephone junction
box. Part of the enjoyment, for
me, was building own logic and
then seeing the contrast of the
'Softimage' way, and for sure, if
you are building something fairly
complex requiring macro detailed
interactions with something of a
much larger scale, eg characters
running through a several fields
of flowers, then somethings can
be improved or optimised from the
off the shelf examples. Otherwise
prepare for big data and long
iteration times. It seems covering
all bases like the 'houdini' way
is fine for examples and base
setup but not so in more
complicated tasks is better to be
good at understanding which bits
to leave out. 😀 or be able
rapidly prototype your own. I
think like Mr Bolland has done and
Pooby is asking for is these
intermediate compounds between
that Softimage bought with it to
help us poor artists out 😂
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