By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor
ref the idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think
he’s done a sterling effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors
the framework of the qLib library. I’m also a fan of his work for
- http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ - and he’s a regular helping hand on
the Discord server. That could be useful for sense checking
emerging ideas against the wider consensus of the Houdini community.
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Nicholas
*Sent:* 29 March 2017 15:50
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you
want to maintain speed imho.
Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete
game changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's
just so much you can do with it, and like you said, it's super
fast. It's particularly useful in doing generative geometry and
other low level geo operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex
is so much more robust and powerful.
And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!
A
On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)
I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays).
I wanted to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want
to bother people to much, plus you have to be sure that what
you're asking has sense, and sometimes you just want to find
yourself ^^
I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la
softimage. Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted
a tut about clumping hair on vimeo. And I came up with
something hybrid but very fast without any for each sop and a
little bit of array.
Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you
want to maintain speed imho.
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.
> I miss the "sort array with key"
You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array
Reorder". Use the Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value
and produce indices, which you then feed to the "Array
Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA
someone could make. Just encapsulate these two to become
a "Sort Array by Key" node.
I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the
complexity and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can
do anything, but where the heck do I start". Much of
which is over the linquistical issues like, for example,
the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of
nodes and what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting
that if people start putting together Softimage->Houdini
digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the
Softimage style names that are used!
Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a
foreign language? Takes a while to get fluent.
A
On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only
speak for vop (not vex).
Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it
took me time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the
answer)
Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be
a limitation when coming to sort those vertex.
I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum
but an arbitrary integer attribute I'm not sure I can.
I wish there was more example (in vop) of array
building and sorting.
I miss the "sort array with key"
I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over
complicated.
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
<[email protected]> wrote:
Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)
Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and
you have the added benefit of being able to see
the arrays directly in Houdini using the Geometry
Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the
visualisation in Softimage and have them
disappearing off the top of the screen. You can
do Python style array slicing in VEX too which is
awesomely useful.
Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an
honest question to try and understand where
Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to
see the issues.
A
On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:
I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini
makes as much sense as in Softimage… Andy???
You are the expert here.
jb
On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest
difference with ICE arrays and Houdini
arrays? In both you have ways of adding,
removing, sorting, etc. elements in the
array in whatever context you're in, no?
A
On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
An example of something we own as ice
user :
One of the first thing I replicated
was the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all
those tutorial with people using the
Attribute transfer, I tried to use it
myself and was horrified : I found it
slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location +
dotproduct method, and imho that's by
far the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should
I wire it in Houdini way of working
?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and
one SOP HDA (which is simply the vop
compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is
that it's able to transfer values of
any context (point, prim, you name
it, ..)
I'll try to record something.
I think there's a large place for
improvement in H for everything that
concerns arrays. In ice, there was a
lot of things to do with arrays ,
hence the speed. And the ice tools
were super efficient for that. In
Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking"
that as VOP by nature is looping
through points it is an "enough"
solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic
that unless you're a vex/C/python
programmer I find it very time
consumming to understand. Plus there
are no doc samples or tut, a part
from the one from Mikael Perterssen
http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/
<http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/>.
That makes me wonder if other people
really consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and
Mikael way to deal with States, hell,
I'm 200% on the ice method.
2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier
Jeannel <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
I'm a morron, but I'd love to
have exclusive pure Ice minded
HDA library.
2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob
Chapman <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Thought I'd pipe in since
tekano got invoked, also
slowly attemting to
transition and agree with
most already said and thanks,
is already a huge pointer to
as yet unknown aspects and
features of how complex
houdini is.
also would be interested in
a more 'compounded' way of
learning Houdini like ice was
introduced. Everything a
compound node of nested
compound logic with exact
same UI logic and Core nodes
and complexity under the hood
but still accessable in a
single click and an 'easy for
artists' ability to follow
the logic flow into further
nested compounds and see how
it was made. Not so with
houdini yet 😎 open one
compound and is equivalent to
inside of the neighborhood
telephone junction box. Part
of the enjoyment, for me, was
building own logic and then
seeing the contrast of the
'Softimage' way, and for
sure, if you are building
something fairly complex
requiring macro detailed
interactions with something
of a much larger scale, eg
characters running through a
several fields of flowers,
then somethings can be
improved or optimised from
the off the shelf examples.
Otherwise prepare for big
data and long iteration
times. It seems covering all
bases like the 'houdini' way
is fine for examples and base
setup but not so in more
complicated tasks is better
to be good at understanding
which bits to leave out. 😀
or be able rapidly prototype
your own. I think like Mr
Bolland has done and Pooby is
asking for is these
intermediate compounds
between that Softimage bought
with it to help us poor
artists out 😂
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