Hi!

Im not saying there isn't a way to see parity other than counting 
cycles. All i was saying is that im quite sure it wouldn't be worth 
the effort. In general im also sceptical about most kinds of 
tricks/anticipation to avoid "hard cases" later on. For that reason 
im also sceptical whether the ZB-method in one form or another can 
really be faster than pure Fridrich/CFOP. I don't think anyone has 
proven yet, timewise, the advantages of a more complex method than 
pure CFOP. Of course there are the occasional really fast solves 
with it, but i haven't seen averages with pure ZB/VH or similar that 
compare with the fastest pure CFOP averages. This could of course be 
simply because only a few people are really into zb, and also that 
so far they only master a part of it :-)

I'm only happy to be proven wrong :-)

-Per

> --- In [email protected], "Ron van Bruchem" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi friends,
> 
> Could Chris/Per/Stefan please explain why they think there cannot 
be a method other than counting cycles?
> I would love to see a proof! Or better, I would love to see a 
proof of a better method. :-)
> 
> Yesterday I found a counter example of my factor 4 hypothesis: 
just swap the edge cubies UrF and URb. You have 0 flipped edge 
pieces, but you do have parity.
> When I started this solve the total number of flipped edge pieces 
was 14 (=parity, which was the indeed the case), so somewhere in the 
solve it changed to a factor of 4.
> 
> CLL=>ELL is indeed an interesting approach. :-)
> 
> Orientation parity during F2L was an idea I already had, and I 
asked Jaap to find an algorithm for it, using his program. At the 
moment he is still on tour in Florida. :-)
> 
> Stefan, I don't understand what you mean with your idea about 
dedges.
> 
> Doing both parities in one is interesting. At the moment I use two 
algorithms (the normal one by Chris, and the double parity one by 
Frédérick), but both twist corners because I use multislice moves. 
It would be great to have a fast algorithm that does not twist 
corners... It would be great to have a fast algorithm for the 
orientation parity anyhow. Yuki can do the parity algorithm 
amazingly fast. I need to train for that. :-)
> 
> Is it true that once you solved 3 centers, you cannot change 
parity anymore when you keep these centers intact? Because then the 
center positions are fixed?
> In that case you only have to count the parity during the first 
three centers. Which is not a big task.
> 
> Thanks and have fun,
> 
> Ron
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Stefan Pochmann 
>   To: [email protected] 
>   Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 4:08 AM
>   Subject: [Speed cubing group] Re: 4x4x4 parity without counting 
cycles
> 
> 
>   --- In [email protected], "Ron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>   >
>   > One of the subjects was avoiding the orientation parity, as 
already 
>   > investigated by Chris Hardwick.
>   > I really think there must be an easier way to check this 
parity, 
>   > than to count the cycles. Counting cycles takes quite a lot of 
time, 
>   > because you have to follow all pieces around the cube.
> 
>   I don't think there's an easy way out and like Per I don't think 
it 
>   would be worth it anyway unless maybe you can really see it in 5-
10 
>   seconds.
> 
>   Some in my opinion more realistic time-savers dealing with the 
>   parities in a centers>edges>3x3 method:
> 
>   - Do CLL->ELL, solving both parities as part of ELL. It's an 
easy 
>   2-look LL.
> 
>   - Recognize and fix orientation parity before solving the last 
F2L 
>   pair. Chris should already be able to recognize it since he's 
doing 
>   ZBF2L and it's not hard to learn anyway. Now we just need a fast 
alg 
>   that exploits the unsolved slot. Should be shorter/faster than 
what we 
>   have so far.
> 
>   - While pairing up dedges, don't flip built dedges anymore 
(optimally 
>   don't change them at all) and count flipped dedges. Then you 
could fix 
>   the parity before starting the 3x3 step. An even shorter/faster 
alg 
>   should exist.
> 
>   Cheers!
>   Stefan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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