When I read NFPA 13 (2007 Edition), 7.3.2.4 Supervision my understanding is that all pre-action systems require supervision of low air pressure at 7 psi when there are 20 or more sprinklers in the system. Am I missing something here?
7.3.2.4* Supervision. 7.3.2.4.1 Sprinkler piping and fire detection devices shall be automatically supervised where there are more than 20 sprinklers on the system. 7.3.2.4.2 Except as permitted by 7.3.2.4.3, air or nitrogen supervising pressure for preaction systems shall be installed in conformance with the dry pipe system air pressure and supply rules of 7.2.6. 7.3.2.4.3 The relief valves required by 7.2.6 shall be permitted to be omitted for the type of preaction system described in 7.3.2.1(1) when the air pressure is supplied from a source that is not capable of developing pressures in excess of 15 psi (1.0 bar). 7.3.2.4.4 All preaction system types described in 7.3.2.1(2) and 7.3.2.1(3) shall maintain a minimum supervising air or nitrogen pressure of 7 psi (0.5 bar). David L. Powell Fire Protection Officer LES P.O. Box 1789 (all mail) 1305 Avenue I Eunice, NM 88231 Tel: +01 505 394 6021 Mob: +01 505 602 0382 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.nefnm.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Supervisory Alarm - Low Air mike, I don't think you'll find any 13 requirement for low air alarms except in refrigerated spaces. General low air monitoring is in 72 just like high air. On 11/5/07, Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The monitoring of a high pressure is not in NFPA 13 or any other NFPA > Pamphlet except in NFPA 72, and the NFPA 13 Committee has never seen fit > to put it in NFPA 13. I have never met anyone that could tell me why it > was in NFPA 72. > Mike Brown > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron > Greenman > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Supervisory Alarm - Low Air > > Of course! How foolish of me! Dave, can you send me your address. I > lost it and I want to send your Tacoma Code Book. > > On 10/24/07, David de Vries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > How would you know? Simple, Ron. You would just check the log where > the building engineer dutifully recorded the air pressure on the system > on a weekly basis, as required by NFPA 25 where there is no electrical > supervison, of course! > > > > lol > > > > Dave at Firetech Engineering Incorp. > > > > Ron Greenman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've always considered the high air supervision more critical than > low > > since a malfunctioning compressor that runs the air up will cause a > > longer trip time whereas low air will just let you know that an > > unwanted trip could happen if not attended to. Of course the emphasis > > is put on the low air because that trip rolls fire trucks, requires a > > technician to be summoned, disrupts the normal course of a day and > > costs the owner money. All recordable events and therefore > > statistically useful for proving one point or another. If, on the > > other hand, you receive a high air you just fix the problem as a piece > > of equipment that needs maintenance. If a life or building was ever > > lost because of high air delaying a trip how would anyone ever know? > > The evidence would demonstrate an overwhelmed system but although it > > might suggest it there is nothing I can think of that would > > definitively demonstrate it was due to a delayed trip time. If a bear > > ....s in the woods...? > > > > On 10/24/07, Tim Frankenberg wrote: > > > Dave, > > > > > > The requirement to monitor low and high air pressure has been in the > code before the 1993 edition of the National Fire Alarm Code. > > > > > > Most of the supervisory pressure switches installed are very much > capable of monitoring both low and high air and have been able to for > many, many years. More times than not, the high air condition is not > being enforced by the AHJ. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > Tim Frankenberg, CFPS > > > > > > Tim Frankenberg, CFPS > > > Fire Product Manager > > > Potter Electric Signal Company > > > www.pottersignal.com > > > 800-325-3936 > > > > > > >>> "Dave Phelan" 10/23/2007 4:52 PM >>> > > > Something new to me popped up today as we are now using the 2002 > editions of > > > 13 & 72 here. > > > > > > On a dry pipe sprinkler the National Fire Alarm Code - NFPA 72 > states that > > > the air supervisory sensor shall signal on loss of 10 PSI but also > on 10 PSI > > > greater than the system set pressure. Check out 5.13 for yourself > but I'm > > > thinking Ive never seen or tested for air greater than 10 PSI of the > set > > > pressure before. > > > > > > How is this being handled in the field during installs and > maintenance ? > > > Does the typical air pressure switch in the little red cover > actually cover > > > both loss and increase pressures? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Dave - a NJ AHJ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > at home.... > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > at home.... > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) DISCLAIMER: This email transmission is confidential Louisiana Energy Services, L.P and intended solely for the person or organization to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organization or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) and delete this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check, as no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage arising out of any bug or virus. _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
