And the building code may say something to the effect that if you change a
sprinkler system, you have to do it in accordance with NFPA #13.

If you look at #13, and you see all the rules for hydraulic calcs, you may
come to understand that there is a requirement to Quantify the effect of
your changes.

Now many systems can be "eyeballed" that, for ex, a shell calc'd to OH 2 as
Brian would have done, with a 20' deck and SSU's and a 10 PSI cushion, now
being converted with straight drops to LH and 10' ceilings with QR SPs, well
likely even a few more heads in the MRA won't hurt when you know that the
flow is cut in half, the MRA reduced by up to 40%. This is a "no-brainer". 

Alas, if you search #13 for "No-brainer" you'll come up as empty as if you
were looking for "head". That's because while many of us can look at and
analyze these "no-brainers", there's no QC check or certification that
states "This enables the bearer to make judgment calls and seat of pants
decisions on sprinkler systems without having to go thru al the requirements
of the normally required code process." Since there are at least a few
people in this industry who SHOULD NOT be making these judgment calls, but
because of insufficient self-examination of their won abilities, or perhaps
because they have "PE after their names, they ARE making judgment calls they
shouldn't.

Sometimes when I point out how obvious something is, Ken asks how to prepare
a submittal of the obvious without going thru the steps of drawing it up,
calc'g it, and submitting what we should have done to Quantify the obvious
so the AHJ can agree with us-before I wasted our time discussing how obvious
the answer was and we shouldn't have to waste time making a submittal. The
answer is simple- if you don't quantify the impact, you can't show how
obvious it is that you wouldn't have to do it.

glc

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Williams
- FPDC
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Arm over Calculations

It depends on the original hydraulics. Was there an allowance 
included for future arm overs/drops? If so, then how does that 
compare? Was the system originally calculated based on 1500 sqft and 
you could now use 900? What was the original spacing. It comes down 
to being a judgement. At what point should it be done? If you think 
that your work will negatively impact the hydraulics, then you should 
do it. Also, the AHJ/Insurance company may have a say in this?



>My question is regarding an existing light hazard system. We are 
>currently using the 2002 NFPA 13.
>
>The system was calculated last year when this was a shell space as 
>light hazard. They are now fitting this space out, and have 
>submitted plans showing a number of arm overs and some additional 
>heads to accommodate the layout of the space.
>
>The question has now come up as to if we should require calculations.
>
>At what point would you say the calculations were needed for this 
>type of work?
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080  
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