IBC states all control valves shall be supervised -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew J. Willis Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 12:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: a non-typical type installation question...
Isn't there also a requirement in 101 for valve supervision (Chap 9).,,? That may or may not apply/help. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis Living Water Fire Protection, LLC. 1160 McKenzie Rd. PO Box 877 Cantonment, FL. 32533 850-937-1850 Voice 850-937-1852 Facsimile [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of RFI - Bismarck ----- >Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:11 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: a non-typical type installation question... ----- > ----- >Thanks all!! Leaning towards a monitored slow-close ----- >ball valve (Butterball model). Another nugget of ----- >knowledge engrained!! :) ----- > ----- >RFI Chuck ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Garth W. ----- >Warren ----- >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 9:17 PM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: Re: a non-typical type installation question... ----- > ----- >I agree, ball valves are not acceptable as a control ----- >valve. Butterfly Valves with tampers would work. If ----- >you are considering these "floor control valves" ----- >remember the drain requirements. ----- > ----- >Garth ----- > ----- >----- Original Message ----- ----- >From: "Scott A. Futrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ----- >To: <[email protected]> ----- >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:58 PM ----- >Subject: RE: a non-typical type installation question... ----- > ----- > ----- >I'm in agreement with Steve regarding supervision. I ----- >don't see how you ----- >can install a ball valve. ----- > ----- >>From NFPA 13R: ----- >5.2.12.1.2 Valve Closure Time. Unless the requirements ----- >of 6.7.1.5 apply, ----- >listed indicating valves shall not close in less than 5 ----- >seconds when ----- >operated at maximum possible speed from the fully open position. ----- > ----- >6.7.1.4 System control or shutoff valves shall be of the ----- >slow-closing ----- >type unless they meet the requirements of 6.7.1.5. ----- > ----- >6.7.1.5 System control or shutoff valves on backflow ----- >prevention devices ----- >that are 2 in. (50 mm) or less in nominal size shall not ----- >be required to ----- >comply with 6.7.1.4. ----- > ----- >Scott Futrell ----- > ----- >(763) 425-1001 Office ----- >(612) 759-5556 Cell ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Steve ----- >Leyton ----- >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:30 PM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: a non-typical type installation question... ----- > ----- >I guess as a design-only enterprise, we can pull a stunt ----- >like this here ----- >and there, but I wouldn't concede to that no way no how. ----- > ----- >I agree with Mark, but to underscore even more ----- >emphatically: the number ----- >one cause of sprinkler system failure is encumbered ----- >water supplies and ----- >partially/wholly closed valves account for something ----- >like 85% of those ----- >instances. FDNY has lost firefighters in two fires ----- >that I can remember ----- >in just the past 5 years or so where sectional valves ----- >buried in walls or ----- >ceilings behind unmarked AP's were left closed and ----- >allowed sprinklered ----- >structures to become fully involved. ----- > ----- >Ball valves? Unsupervised? Nah ... ----- > ----- >Steve Leyton ----- >Protection Design & Consulting ----- > ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Mark ----- >Sornsin ----- >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:10 PM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: a non-typical type installation question... ----- > ----- >Chuck: ----- > ----- >There should be no problem installing these valves. I ----- >believe they ----- >should be supervised, as they control water to protected areas. ----- > ----- >The problem with adding sectional valves to a system is ----- >that they are ----- >easily forgotten. The main cause of sprinkler system ----- >failure is the shut ----- >valve. Therefore, as a general rule, one should ----- >hesitate to add valves ----- >where they are not required. ----- > ----- >But if the owner wants them in place, I would suggest additional ----- >security - especially if they are going to be located in ----- >a concealed ----- >location (e.g. above a ceiling). Seals or locks seem ----- >appropriate in ----- >addition to the electrical supervision. ----- > ----- >Mark A. Sornsin, PE ----- >Fire Protection Engineer ----- >Ulteig Engineers, Inc. ----- >Fargo, ND ----- >701.280.8591 ----- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- > ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of RFI - ----- >Bismarck ----- >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 5:05 PM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: a non-typical type installation question... ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >Have a fairly small facility (<60 Heads); typical "U" ----- >shaped building; ----- >the ----- >owner is requesting that prior to going into each "wing" ----- >a ball valve be ----- >placed to be able to shut down that side of the wing for ----- >maintenance ----- >purposes... the AHJ - who also wears the hat as the buildings' ----- >maintenance ----- >super' -was contacted by the owner to request this ----- >scenario - to which ----- >he ----- >(AHJ) has approved. ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >Couple questions I have after reading 13R 2007; ----- >5.2.12.4.4 and 6.7.1.2: ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >(1) Acceptable installation then? (I'm leaning ----- >towards "yes") ----- > ----- >(2) Supervised? ----- > ----- >(3) Non-supervised? ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >Only reason for #2 & #3 is because they (NFPA sections) don't ----- >'compliment' ----- >one another - yet they don't "contradict" either. ----- >5.2.12.4.4 states ----- >that ----- >you can use one... doesn't state that it needs to be ----- >supervised where ----- >6.7.1.2 ----- >states otherwise... ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >Any help or insight would be appreciated!! ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >RFI Chuck ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- > ----- >No virus found in this outgoing message. ----- >Checked by AVG. ----- >Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - Release Date: ----- >3/17/2008 ----- >10:48 AM ----- > ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- >No virus found in this incoming message. ----- >Checked by AVG. ----- >Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - ----- >Release Date: 3/17/2008 ----- >10:48 AM ----- > ----- > ----- >No virus found in this outgoing message. ----- >Checked by AVG. ----- >Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1332 - ----- >Release Date: 3/17/2008 ----- >10:48 AM ----- > ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
