I was referring to the 2002 Edition of NFPA which is still adopted by a majority of the US.
Mark E. Eckard S.E.T. Engineering Manager Lowe's Companies 1605 Curtis Bridge Road REEC Dock Wilkesboro, N.C. 28697 Phone: (336) 658-4359 Fax: (336) 658-3257 Cell: (336) 467-0194 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 1:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Seismic Calcs Mark, Can you give me some background on where you've come to this conclusion on seismic design category D and higher not being within the scope of NFPA-13? My latest ASCE7 manual seems to suggest otherwise. PARSLEY CONSULTING Ken Wagoner, SET 760.745.6181 voice 760.745.0537 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> e-mail www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website Eckard, Mark - Mark E wrote: > Another issue with seismic bracing design and calculation is the fact > that NFPA 13 only applies to seismic design category A, B, & C. > Categories "A" and "B" usually do not require bracing unless it is a > local jurisdictional requirement to brace everything. Seismic design > category D and higher are out of the scope of NFPA-13 and require design > by a Professional Engineer. So in summary NFPA is good for Seismic > design category "C". > I have come to realize that quite a large number of designers don't > realize this. > > Mark E. Eckard S.E.T. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve > Leyton > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:33 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Seismic Calcs > > If you consider this issue in terms of the 2007 standard, the sprinkler > system EQB designs are based on standard values that can be taken from > referenced sources (such as ASCE). You then plug the values into > equations prescribed by NFPA 13 and you get a finalized design > (basically, you confirm the fastener or means of anchorage for the brace > assembly). None of which takes into account the capacity of the > building itself to bear the applied loads that have been calculated, but > you don't need the help of an SE to simply design the braces. > > Once upon a time, we did our designs on a deferred basis, showed EQB's > every 40', picked a hanger based on the type of structural member and > submitted for approval. Today, especially here in the Southwest, we > consult the project structural engineer of record on every project. > Modern lightweight construction systems, engineered wood products and > high seismic force values often mean that even if one could design a > brace assembly that bears enough load to space out to 40' on center, you > simply can't put 600, or 700 or 800 lbs. of horizontal load on the floor > or roof framing. We currently have projects where bracing is limited to > 25-30' on center, just to dilute the load on each brace. > > Southern California has several fire departments that now REQUIRE review > by the SE of record and an accompanying letter of acceptance. This > speaks to the original question of what to put on the shop drawings - > perhaps nothing, if you can submit documentation of a 3rd-party review. > I know that this is another step that most in our industry have never > undertaken and generally doesn't account for in estimating design costs, > but I strongly recommend that every project be submitted to the > Architect for review by the designer(s) of record before submittal to > the FD. And if you're in a region that is just now breaking into the > whole "seismic thing", I would also craft language into my standard > proposal form that excludes costs for review by structural engineer as > may be required. > > Steve Leyton > Protection Design & Consulting > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd > Williams - FPDC > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 7:51 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Seismic Calcs > > Bill, > > I think that you may have discovered another disconnect between > theory and practice. To my knowledge, none of the AHJs in my area > have either the expertise or staff to do a review on seismic. My > guess is that they are just going to say "yes, there is seismic". > That is pretty much what I see now and I don't see it changing, given > municipal budgeting. The exception could possibly be in larger cities > or at the state level. The structural engineer from the design team > (assuming that there is one) would be the only person qualified to do > an actual review. Whether they ever see sprinkler shop drawings is > questionable. > > > At 10:02 AM 5/28/2008, you wrote: > >> NFPA 13-2007, 22.1.3(39) requires "Calculation of loads for sizing and >> details of sway bracing". What should a typical shop drawing package >> include so that the selected sway bracing can be approved? >> >> Who reviews these calculations prior to submission to the AHJ? Do AHJs >> pass these on to structural design reviewers, or are the sprinkler >> installer's submittals accepted without review? >> >> Bill Brooks >> >> William N. Brooks, P.E. >> Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. >> 372 Wilett Drive >> Severna Park, MD 21146 >> 410-544-3620 Phone >> 410-544-3032 FAX >> 412-400-6528 Cell >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > www.fpdc.com > 860.535.2080 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
