Thanks for all of the input. If I were writing code I would strongly
encourage the use of outside PIVs.  In the cold parts of the world, it
gives easier access to control the water line to the sprinklers inside
the building, without having to dig through snow or chip away ice.

I like the idea of preferring these valves to be a building height away
from the outside wall, then scale it back where it is impractical to do
that. I may just have to propose that for NFPA 13.

The other frustration with the case I citied is that the city enforcing
this rule just recently changed their code. They used to allow no
outside PIV as long as there was an indicating valve indoors within a
certain distance from an exterior door. Now they've decided it's worth
the added expense, elbows, and general confusion to rout a lead-in main
200 ft. out of it way just to meet the 40 ft. requirement.

I believe it is time for me to write a courteous letter of disagreement
to their codes office (along with a recommendation for improvement).

Mark A. Sornsin, PE 
Fire Protection Engineer 
Ulteig Engineers, Inc. 
Fargo, ND  
701.280.8591
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: PIV 40ft from Building

There are plenty of water districts out there that do their own street
work up to face of, or back of curb.  We work regularly with at least
one that REQUIRES a second in-line valve at the termination.  Not a
blow-off, not a cap or plug, but a valve.  So once you extend into the
property and build a backflow (exterior, above grade here in sunny
SoCal), you get FOUR control valve at the exterior of a system.  

As for the 40 foot distance, I'm only speculating, but there are plenty
of FD's out there that consider the building height and make that the
minimum distance.  We see that throughout the Southwest, especially with
tilt-up buildings.   In case of wall failure, they want the step-down
point out of harm's way ...

Steve Leyton
Protection Design & Consulting
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