Forum members,
We too, have the Tyco WS model sprinkler 'system' available here in Australia and currently I believe it is the only Fire Rating Level (FRL) 'listed' (read approved by TESTING) sprinkler for this use. Although the sprinklers are expensive the R&D behind them and the inherent 'listing' to achieve a FRL is what you are paying for (and probably the Tyco insurance premium that goes with them). Any other sprinkler manufacturers on track to get a listed FRL sprinkler in the marketplace? With the relatively recent allowance of 'fire engineering' here in Australia we have had to complete some project designs (particularly before the Tyco WS release) where lengths of glazing were protected, but we could never provide a design 'fire rating'. These projects were completed in conjunction with all design team members and generally led by the fire engineers who can account for a wetting density, usually per m2, required to remove an agreed heat level. They also make other design requirements including glass type, thickness, etc. The Achilles' heel in the Tyco sprinkler (no offence to Tyco but the construction reality) is its inability to be used on anything but fixed framed glazing systems. As an example many retail projects are consistently requiring the aesthetic beauty of glazed separation of areas between the retail and carparking areas, which are usually required to be 'fire separated' in Australia. Essentially these glazed entry areas don't work well without doors.. From a sprinkler designer point of view I put forward a couple of my comments/opinions for the like minded forum members, - Almost all fire engineers restrict combustibles from close proximity of the glazing - if your project does not seem to be complying with this, ask questions. This is particularly applicable with carparking as a car fire can be shielded from the normal occupied space sprinkler system. - Glass ain't glass apparently. Toughened seems to be the glass type of choice due to higher tolerance to exposure when dry, wet and as it is getting wet. - Not all your discharge will make it to the windows - in fact the percentage is probably lower than you expect. Better to underdo the percentage than overestimate when hydraulically calculating sprinkler discharges. Although airborne water particles absorb radiant heat if you are trying to wet glass I prefer a sprinkler that emits water more specifically towards the glazing and not in a 360 degree pattern. - Try and use the lowest operating temp and RTI sprinkler suitable. - Don't forget to wet the framing materials - not much point having glazing between concrete slabs to have the glass fall over because the frames burn away. They should be non-combustible - but hey, stranger things have happened. - Try and avoid all horizontal mullions unless you can locate a sprinkler below them (Tyco WS understandably prohibits them). This has been very difficult in practice particularly if you have a doorway such as a sliding door to a retail area (yep had to do one of those - try telling the team that the door should be separated and/or rated) and the auto door hardware is typically right above the door. In this particular case I located the HSW pendant to spray as much water below the door head - not perfect but better than nothing. Also don't forget to ensure any auto doors close from fire system trip. You can't 'drench' an opening. - From my on site testing the longer glass panes tend to 'rivulet' unless the over glass flow is quite high (sorry I don't have figures on this). I did find the use of a spray pattern which throws not only high on the window but also longer down the glass (a bit like rain) seems to assist with reducing these dry spots which I associate with surface tension issues. Any scientific analysis of this members? - SSP sprinklers mounted pendant are not effective in providing wetting to the high level corners of the windows - avoid using them for this application. Horizontal Side Wall mounted pendant (facing the glazing system) are quite effective for this. - I have NEVER completed a drencher test without some form of obstruction getting stuck in and deforming at least one of the sprinkler patterns. Make sure the water supply is clean and flushed! - If at all possible (i.e. no water and drainage issues) complete a drencher test to check your design and installation. Taking a number of different sprinkler types to try during a test can be very enlightening and may prove fruitfull. - Although mentioned above that there are no FRL guarantees, avoid obvious flaws such as a 1 hour tank supply is not much good if the fire engineer has asked for 2 hours of continuous protection. - Make sure the owner/builder/interior decorator etc. knows that NOTHING can be placed between the sprinkler and the glass. No, not even Venetian blinds! (certifiers note: look at the system when re-certifying) - You will be surprised how NOT water proof some glazing systems are under pressured sprinkler streams - be vigilant for window leaks during a test on the DRY side. - They are usually ugly - tell the architect to get over it or use fire rated glass - he'll come round. I would be more than happy to get experienced feedback from other designers/installers on this issue to add to the knowledge base, either on or off forum whatever suits. ....oh and watch out for escalator pits near your drencher test. They make for very expensive swimming pools. :-( Regards, Mark Cummings Sydney, Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Cahill Sent: Wednesday, 1 October 2008 12:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers Yep, that's what I'm saying. Of course there are other ways to skin this cat. Fire rated glass is a $$$$ option but I think the size of each pane is limited so it wouldn't be confused with a glass wall. This would be code compliant. Perhaps an alternate method of compliance is possible with ordinary heads but that's between the designer of responsibility (EOR) and the AHJ. Note I'm trying to keep the PE part to a minimum because I know reality sometimes leaves these things in your lap. And an alternate is not the same as code compliance technically, practically maybe but not technically. I'd say a side light with an ordinary head might be something as an AHJ I'd entertain as equivalent. A 60' wall not a chance. Also I required the glass wall of this size to be valved separate from the rest of the system all the way back to the header. Our approval was based on the fact traditional fire rating is not lost when the sprinklers are shut off for maintenance or TI's. There is no reason to lose the rating just because sprinklers (Tyco) are being used instead of sheetrock. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russell Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers Let me see if I understand Chris, from an architectural standpoint, the glass wall is not a rated wall unless the Tyco sprinkler is used? "Cause there is nothing in the code that I am aware of that gives a rating with ordinary sprinklers at any spacing." "If you have a corridor that requires a rating Tyco heads are the only code complying solution I am aware of if using sprinklers." Chris Cahill, P.E. Russell Rewis Brown Automatic Sprinklers, Inc. 107C Hemlock Street Valdosta, Georgia 31601 229-244-8130 [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
