Jim, While I can certainly see your point I am looking at this from another point of view. FM has a clearly defined tree decision on when THEY require coal conveyors to be sprinklered. It is in Data sheet 7-11 or 4-1n can't remember which one off the top of my head. Essentially once the conveyor gets over 40' elevated AND it is enclosed it MUST be covered. Most of the existing belts in our area are not sprinklered, however all of the belts on new projects are specified to be covered "per NFPA and insurance guidelines". I have found out that on some of the new projects one of my competitors was not protecting the return belt. I am questioning how this can be? More specifically I am wondering why the FM sheets don't protect it while the NFPA standard clearly does. As you have stated these owners are not legally bound to protect them however they are doing a cost benefit analysis with their insurer to see if it makes sense that they do. Part of this risk analysis is the possibility of down time during / after a fire and as I am sure you are aware that is where the money really is. At the end of the day I want to know if it is prudent to only protect the top belt or if the return belt needs the protection also.
Thanks, Rod DiBona Rapid Fire -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Coal conveying belts FM standards Ron, The IBC doesn't reference NFPA 15 and the IFC references NFPA 15 references is very limited. Unless a jurisdiction specifically adopts NFPA 15, there is no legal requirement to follow it. In the project I cited, in order to save the owner several hundred thousand clams, I had recommended protecting only the front and tail ends of the limestone conveyor. The belt was fire resistive and conveyor was also interlocked to shut down upon actuation of the lineal heat detection cable. The project was a flue gas desulfurization project for an industrial power plant. There was no insurance requirement to protect the entire conveyor. Also, I was involved with two(2) other coal fired power plants with similar limestone conveyors and neither was required by FM to be provided with water spray protection. That being said, based on Stewart's story of an explosion and fire at a British Steel plant that exposed a limestone conveyor, I am not as staunch in my opinion. Regards, James L.(Jim) Roberts, PE Fluor Corporation 100 Fluor Daniel Drive - C104F Greenville, SC 29607 864.281.5149 864.281.4916(Fax) "Rod DiBona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/25/2008 01:23 AM Please respond to sprinklerforum To <[email protected]> cc Subject RE: Coal conveying belts FM standards Thanks for the reply Jim. Actually I am referring to the gallery that the conveyor belt is enclosed in. It is a tubular gallery (therefore enclosed). There will be an interlock to shut down the conveyor. When you say that protection of the top and return belt is "overkill" in your opinion, which is what I am hearing from others; how do you reconcile the NFPA 15 standard that says to protect the "top and bottom belt surface area...?" I feel like this is clearly spelled out in the standard yet I see that FM doesn't seem to require it so I am scratching my head on this one. Thanks for the help. Rod DiBona Rapid Fire ________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 11/24/2008 7:17 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Coal conveying belts Ron, When you say "tube style", I am assuming that is the same as "pipe" conveyors where the belt is open at loading and unloading ends, but is "wrapped" closed by idlers for travel between conveyor ends and is flat for the return travel. Is that correct? If the belt is fire resistive, it might not need water spray protection for the return belt depending upon the quantity of coal dust still adhering to the belt. I have recently done a 1000 ft. limestone conveyor of this type, where the client wanted both belts protected even though the belt was fire resistive and belt motors were interlocked to shut down the conveyor. - over kill in my opinion, since limestone is inert. For that situation, spray nozzles were provided over the top of the top conveyor and at the side to spray between belts and below the return belt. Regards, James L.(Jim) Roberts, PE/SET Fluor Corporation 100 Fluor Daniel Drive - C104F Greenville, SC 29607 864.281.5149 864.281.4916(Fax) "Rod DiBona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/21/2008 06:33 PM Please respond to sprinklerforum To <[email protected]> cc Subject Coal conveying belts I am wondering what is typically done when covering an elevated (40' and higher) and enclosed tube style coal conveyor. The property in question is an FM property. The dilemma that I am trying to resolve is that when looking at FM data sheets 7-11 and 4-1N it only shows and talks about configurations to cover the top belt with no mention whatsoever of the return belt. NFPA #15 7.2.3.3.2 says "Discharge patterns of water spray nozzles shall envelop at a net rate of not less than .25 gpm/ft, the top and bottom belt surface area, conveyor surfaces where combustible materials are likely to accumulate, the structural parts, and the idler rolls supporting the belt." This seems to be a rare case where FM's requirement is less stringent than NFPA. In this case I am dealing with Powder River Basin coal which is more likely to spontaneously combust than coal from other areas so I would really feel better about doing both belts. At the end of the day FM will dictate the minimum but I wanted to be fully informed to give the owner all options. Thanks for your input as always. Rod DiBona Rapid Fire _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. 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