John, Well put. Wouldn't it be great if that discussion started with truly knowledgeable people at the architectural level?
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 1:53 PM, John Drucker <[email protected]> wrote: > Thom, > > I believe there exists a misunderstanding of exactly what codes and > standards represent. From a municipal enforcing agency standpoint codes and > standards represent some level of adequacy with regards to public safety and > firefighters. From an Insurance and Owners standpoint some level of > property and mission preservation. Theres a distinct difference in goals. > > Frankly I think some have come to rely on public safety codes and standards > as universally adequate. On the other hand I have first hand experience with > stakeholders who exceed adopted codes and standards simply because that's > the level of protection they deem adequate. Intrestingly our state > construction code contains public school educational enhancements that > exceed the requirements of the IBC. > > The moral to the story is stakeholders must be educated to understand the > difference between public safety goals and property and mission preservation > goals. > > John Drucker > Fire Protection Subcode Official (AHJ) > Red Bank, NJ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:21 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Hi Rise Secondary Source ... again > > As a friend of my keeps telling people, "The Code is always 100% clear in > its intention and meaning,---Until the second person reads it." > > I really believe that while the codes and standards we use are the minimum, > what we really are seeking is a "Comfort level" at which we have done a > reasonable amount to reduce the hazard while admitting that we could do more > at some additional cost. That comfort level must be felt by all share > holders. The Owner, Design team, AHJ, Insurance company and the contractor. > Sounding them out before making an assumption of what they think is good > enough, before design usually saves many wasted steps. > > How much stored water for a secondary source, will always have a different > set of guide lines for every share holder than what the only source might > have. > As I ended the last post on this, Ask the AHJ and insurance underwriter what > they require. (Their requirements may be different than yours or the codes.) > > > Thom McMahon, SET > Firetech, Inc. > 2560 Copper Ridge Dr > P.O. Box 882136 > Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 > Tel: 970-879-7952 > Fax: 970-879-7926 > > > Thom, > > I checked IBC after posting. It says the tank is to be sized for 30 minutes > of the "hydraulically calculated sprinkler demand, including the hose stream > allowance". There is no mention of standpipe demand. > I might be wrong, but I have never seen "hose stream allowance" used in > context of anything but sprinkler calculations. Is it? Please let me know. > Could it be that the code writers know that a hose stream allowance is part > of a sprinkler demand calculation and that it might be confusing if they did > not flat out say standpipe demand if that is what they really meant? I think > that is a fair assumption, of course sometimes it seems like the code > committees conspire together over drinks and with rousing laughter to, > "make'm scratch their heads for hours over this one." > > Allan Seidel > St. Louis, MO > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
