I am only familiar with WA State, but "condo" is partial ownership term, not an architectural term. I am familiar in the city I work in with condo's similar to Ron's description, condo's that meet the new townhouse definition, and condos that are detached, and look similar to single family dwellings.
If you are involved with an IRC townhouse project expect to spend extra time. My experience is that various parties will bounce around on features depending on how it helps keep their budget lower. Often different players forget only the architect and the owner get to choose the major pathways, and everyone else's job is to follow. I personally think the townhouse addition was a great code change, and embodied what many were doing on a case by case basis under alt. meths. and mat. Bruce V. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Greenman" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2009 9:38:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Townhouse or Apartment Building IBC shows townhouses with 2 hour common walls extending from the foundation to the roof and under certain conditions through the roof. Law typically allows for individual ownership of the ground it sits on and perhaps front and rear yards regardless of homeowner associations. This makes them separate buildings with zero lot lines (at least on the sidewalls) just like the big boys downtown. Condos are more like apartments with common attics and joint ownership of the land with each unit being owned separately. For my money I see little difference between owned apartments and condos except as some real estate marketing distinction whereas a townhouse is no different than an SFD but without set backs. But then I only play a lawyer on the Forum. On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Thom McMahon <[email protected]> wrote: > Just an added note here in ski country. (Steamboat opens Nov. 25th) Colorado > law makers have done a legal dance around Condo's and ownership and > construction types. > If I have a series of three "Townhouses" which have a common wall between > units and the property line extends beyond the outside of the exterior wall > line. With individual title and no Association encumbrances. It's a > townhouse, If these same structures are built and the property line only > extends to the exterior surface of the Non-common walls, and the > "Association" does have an encumbrance, then it is a "Condo" > > Our AHJ's say town home 13D. Condo's more than 2 unit 13R. Which I find > really funny since a "Duplex Condo is allowed 13D, but a triplex condo has > to be 13R. (Again we're talking Horz. not vertical structures.) There's also > a part of the law about a condo you only own up to the roof, and a town home > you own the sky above. > > I'm sure other states have their own quirks, like CA or FL. > > Thom McMahon, SET > Firetech, Inc. > 2560 Copper Ridge Dr > P.O. Box 882136 > Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 > Tel: 970-879-7952 > Fax: 970-879-7926 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 7:40 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Townhouse or Apartment Building > > No, > > They are considered separate buildings under individual ownership and with > that a myriad of legal issues. > > John Drucker Jr CET > Fire Protection Subcode Official > Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector > Borough of Red Bank, NJ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 8:36 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Townhouse or Apartment Building > > So here's a related question- > Can that series of 13D's be fed by a single riser? > glc > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 8:37 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Townhouse or Apartment Building > > Steve's correct. > > The ownership arrangement does not change the use group. By definition > townhouses are attached, albeit separated by party walls (firewalls on a lot > line), single family dwellings and not multiple dwellings. Like single and > two family dwellings, townhouses are provided for in International > Residential Code (IRC). Like single and two family dwellings fire sprinklers > are facilitated by NFPA-13D or IRC P2904. > > Often we hear the terms condominium, association, rental and timeshare used > to describe the use with regards to the building code when in fact those > terms are merely describing the forms of ownership. > > Lastly for those working in NJ. The NJUCC has set a height requirement for > unprotected wood frame (VB) construction of 2 stories. To exceed that > requires either a) Protected Wood Frame construction (VA) or a supervised > NFPA-13R sprinkler system, again note a supervised NFPA-13R sprinkler > system. > > Hope that helps, > > John Drucker, CET > Fire Protection Subcode Official > Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector > New Jersey > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 7:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Townhouse or Apartment Building > > Ask your local building official. Were the SFD's subdivided or are > they still townhouses that are now rented out? Seems to me that if you > haven't changed the use and occupancy, then it doesn't matter whether the > tenants own the dwelling or not. > > Steve Leyton > Protection Design & Consulting > San Diego, CA > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Cabral > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 3:52 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Townhouse or Apartment Building > > Hypothetical Question. . . A builder constructs what was intended to be > 3 story townhouses. 13D is applied under 2010 13D Section 3.3.10. The > units don't sell and are rented out. If you rent a townhouse complex is it > an apartment building? Would 13R system be required? > > Mike Cabral > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4574 (20091104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4574 (20091104) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY: > This email message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and > confidential, nor is it, unless specifically stated, intended to be relied > upon by any person or persons other than the individual or entity named > above and no warranties or representations are made or intended to persons > or entities not named above. 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Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
