Rich, I think there is confusion as to what 11.1.2 is calling for. I see that section as telling us when to extend the more-demanding sprinkler protection (spacing, density, etc) into adjacent areas that would otherwise have less-demanding sprinkler protection - but not what sprinks to include in our design area (be it room design method or otherwise). Subtle but major difference.
Example 1: 600 sf OH room surrounded by light hazard. The walls are not rated and are built (in some odd way) so they don't prevent heat from a fire in the OH room from activating sprinks beyond the OH room. Per 11.2.3.3.3, room design method can't be used. So you end up calcing 1500 sf (+_). The sprinkler protection (spacing, density, etc) within the OH room AND 15' BEYOND is .20 gpm/sf. The sprinkler protection (spacing, density, etc) in the remainder of the 1500 is .10 gpm/sf. Example 2: 600 sf OH room surrounded by light hazard. The walls are not rated but are built so they don't allow heat from a fire in the OH room from activating sprinks beyond the OH room. Per 11.2.3.3.3, room design method can't be used. So you end up calcing 1500 sf (+_). The sprinkler protection (spacing, density, etc) within the OH room is .20 gpm/sf. The sprinkler protection (spacing, density, etc) in the remainder of the 1500 is .10 gpm/sf. Again, I don't think it's about what sprinks to calc, it about what spacing/density etc are applicable. Other sections tell us what sprinks to calc. On the other hand, I've yet to be told today that I'm wrong, so maybe I'm due. Ed Kramer Littleton, CO > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Richardson, R > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:02 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Room Design vs. Adjacent Hazards > > Unless you invoke section 11.1.2, in which case none of those features > are required. > > Rich Richardson > Seattle Fire Department > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric Tysinger > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:00 > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Room Design vs. Adjacent Hazards > > I would say you are correct. Additional heads flowing outside the > "design room" are only applicable in light hazard where the doors are > not automatic or self-closing (no rating required). In ordinary hazard > rooms, there is no option, the doors must be rated and automatic or > self-closing. In either hazard the walls must be rated to the duration > of the water supply required. > > Thanks, > Eric Tysinger CET > NICET III - 108988 > Designer > Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. > 4370 Motorsport Drive > Concord, NC 28027 > p: (704)782-3032 x1751 > f: (704)795-6838 > C: (239)633-9703 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of ParsleyConsulting > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:18 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Room Design vs. Adjacent Hazards > > Rich, > > Isn't that requirement in the room design method for additional head(s) > flowing outside the room design area only applicable to Light Hazard? > > I'm probably not understanding the issue, but that seems relevant to me > from what I read in the room design paragraphs of -13. > > -- > PARSLEY CONSULTING > Ken Wagoner, SET > 760.745.6181 voice > 760.745.0537 fax > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail > www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website > > > > > Richardson, R wrote: > > It does meet 11.1.2 (subject to a massive interpretation as to what > constitutes adequate separation), but does not meet room design because > the wall is not fire rated, the doors in the wall are not self-closing > and they are not including two heads outside the OH area as required by > room design. > > > > Rich > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:42 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Room Design vs. Adjacent Hazards > > > > Rich: > > > > How does your 600 Sf OH space not meet the requirements of 11.1.2(2)? > And > > still qualify for room design? > > > > Thom McMahon, SET > > Firetech, Inc. > > 2560 Copper Ridge Dr > > P.O. Box 882136 > > Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 > > Tel: 970-879-7952 > > Fax: 970-879-7926 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Richardson, R > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:33 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Room Design vs. Adjacent Hazards > > > > In reference to 2007 NFPA 13 section 11.1.2 Adjacent Hazards, is this > > considered a stand-alone code section or does one still have to meet > all of > > the room design criteria. > > > > The question is relevant to a situation where a small ordinary hazard > space > > is app. 600 sq.ft. adjacent to a light hazard space and they are using > > 11.1.2. > > > > It seems that section 11.1.2. essentially makes the room design > irrelevant. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rich Richardson > > Seattle Fire Department > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [email protected] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [email protected] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [email protected] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
