They are not immediately adjacent - in proximity, like 8' away. I'm okay with the inside protection of glazing Rich; there is nothing outside of these windows except landscaping and the project is not in a wildfire interface zone. The AHJ's intent is to protect the stairs from a fire within the compartments on the other side of the windows in question.
Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 7:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Small Orifice Sprinklers in Water Curtain The thing to consider is that room sprinklers installed at the ceiling may not completely cover the glazing in such a way as to prevent failure of that glazing or frames. The water curtain is intended to provide a more uniform flow of water across the windows and frames based on its specific design requirements. I thought the stair was adjacent to the windows, not 10ft away? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richardson, R Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 10:16 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Small Orifice Sprinklers in Water Curtain The exception to 704.12 to allow a water curtain in lieu of fire protected glazing is simply odd when the curtain is only required on the inside of the building. The implication is that fire sprinklers in a fully sprinklered building are not sufficient to prevent a room fire from busting out a window and spreading across the exterior walls (or through space) to the stair that is 10 ft. away. I suppose it could happen, but seems like a low probability event if the sprinklers are in service. If the sprinks are out of service good chance the water curtain is as well. Rich Richardson Seattle Fire Department -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 13:25 To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Small Orifice Sprinklers in Water Curtain We're using 704.12 to meet 45 minutes per Table 715.5. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Small Orifice Sprinklers in Water Curtain Is this stair supposed to be a protected exit? Like normally in a rated shaft but now exposed due to glazing on one side? So question is whether you're trying to emulate a certain fire resistance rating with these window sprinklers or just providing some sort of exposure protection? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Small Orifice Sprinklers in Water Curtain The AHJ wants additional protection, to mitigate fire spread from the interior toward exterior stairs in proximity to the affected openings. The building code allows for protection of openings in a fully sprinklered building by use of a water curtain per 903.3.1.1, i.e. NFPA 13. We're going to cobble together the discharge criteria and placement of a sprinkler over the interior side of each panel and call it a day. I don't write the copy, just reading the news into the camera. Steve Leyton Protection Design & Consulting San Diego, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Hairfield Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:22 PM To: AFSA SprinklerFORUM Subject: RE: Small Orifice Sprinklers in Water Curtain Shouldn't you be looking at Exposure Protection Sprinkler Systems which allows different K factors? Mike > Subject: Small Orifice Sprinklers in Water Curtain > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:12:11 -0700 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > Scenario: 3-story Light Hazard (Residential) occupancy, > fully sprinklered per 13. > > Situation: Exterior exit stairs are too close to glazed > openings in exterior walls and 45-minute window protection is required > (from inside out) for several 2'x3' fixed windows on all three floors. > > Challenge: Can't use window sprinklers because exterior walls > are bearing. Am proposing to use water curtain provisions of the > building code, and furnish 3 GPM per lineal foot per 13. > > > > Question: Since the windows are only 2' wide, and there are > up to 3 windows in a cluster, we will have sprinklers at 4' apart in > several areas and will be provided a baffle of some sort. I can > easily hit my minimum flow rate with small orifice sprinklers and do not > see any restriction in 13 regarding orifice size in a water curtain. > Since it's all Light Hazard, can anyone think of a reason why we can't > use 4.2K pendents? > > > > Steve Leyton > > PROTECTION DESIGN & CONSULTING > > 2851 Camino del Rio South, Suite 400 > > San Diego, CA 92108 > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ph: 858.751.2930 - ext. 102 > > Fax: 858.751.2933 > > Cell: 619.972.5696 > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5282 (20100715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5282 (20100715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5282 (20100715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5282 (20100715) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5283 (20100716) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5283 (20100716) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
