I hear ya George. I am sure that I will learn more next week in Rhode Island. Yet another reason to go to every convention. Truth is that we commonly mix glycol 70/30 out here and Marty tells me for over 30 years with no reported problem. I look forward to hearing and seeing the facts. At the end of the day we will get through it and I do have confidence that the right decision will be made. Just wondered if we knew with reasonable certainty that the antifreeze was the cause. Questioning why we haven't seen these in the past; or if we had, was there a different diagnosis? Read the report from FSI. Interesting and well done but I have some questions. Maybe they get answered next week! See you down there.
Rod DiBona Rapid Fire -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 3:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Anti Freeze for commercial There's some commentary, I think by Roland recently, that the TIA's needed to get out- we've got sprinkler systems causing explosions and killing people- and the testing results were almost ready but TC members didn't have the chance to fully understand what was coming. I cannot fault the Standards Council, their job is to protect the best interests of the NFPA and that includes erring on the side of caution- a concept hopefully embraced by all readers of this great Forum. When I make my unwashed proclamation of what I'm seeing, I have the benefit of more info than they had, and no one is looking to me for an industry leadership position like they look at the NFPA (or you're nuts). AF % in your neck of the woods has gotta be 98%. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 4:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Anti Freeze for commercial I will read the reports mentioned and I really agree with Ron that you basically have three options of which only one is viable.... If..... conclusive evidence is presented. AF over 50% didn't just become combustible so if this was a known FACT then why was the industry not concerned for all of these years. It will be interesting to see how it plays out but I am still a little skeptical. Maybe with some research and education I will be where most of you seem to be. At this point it doesn't seem to me that this is conclusive. Rod DiBona Rapid Fire -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Art Tiroly Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 9:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Anti Freeze for commercial When AF is above 50% it is a combustible liquid below 50% it is not easily ignited. Break it up, in a fine spray from sprinkler and there is no surprise that the spray is explosive. If we cant control the industry to not use high concentrations of AF then we must find a different method. Properly applied the AF is not a problem IMHO. Arthur Tiroly -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matthew J. Willis Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 10:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Anti Freeze for commercial There are some good reports out there. One from CCI I think from the NFPA website might sway your opinion some. Especially the part about 8 sprinklers of the 10 opening. How many do we design in apartments? As Top said, Explosion. Windows blown out.., Very Nasty. Top, any links to pics??? R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, CET Automatic Fire Sprinklers Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. 318-387-1134 Voice 318-816-1087 Mobile 318-387-1163 Facsimile [email protected] > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] > >[mailto:sprinklerforum- [email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod > >DiBona > >Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 9:28 AM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: RE: Anti Freeze for commercial > > > >Am I the only one that is still somewhat skeptical? Seems like a lot > >of years without many problems and then a few isolated problems. I > >think the jury is still out. The facts are the facts and we must do > >what is right. > >I just don't know if we are dealing with hard facts at this point. No > >matter what it is a black eye for the industry at a time when we > >really didn't need it. I suspect the homebuilders will use this as a > >weapon in their arsenal. > > > >Rod DiBona > >Rapid Fire > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] > >[mailto:sprinklerforum- [email protected]] On Behalf Of Top > >Myers > >Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 12:11 PM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: RE: Anti Freeze for commercial > > > >Have you all seen pictures of what happened when there was a problem. > >We are not talking a fire but some serious explosion. At some point > >we just have to do what is right. There are more possible TIA's ion > >the wings that address the fact that antifreezes are sometime used in > >restaurants and lodges and other areas that a group of people gather. > >NFPA did not takes these areas into consideration and they should > >have considered. I believe key is to allow premix glycerin only at > >50% max. > >It is important to note that you cannot properly mix in field the > >same way a chemical processor can do. > > > >We need to design away from this stuff and it can be done. There are > >many contractors that do not use antifreeze. It is important to > >remember that in homes which will not be inspected or maintained > >having antifreeze, backflow, expansion tanks etc. will be a problem > >and a black eye for our industry. > > > >We are going to need help from AHJ's who want sprinklers in unheated > >areas and from builders who do not want to give us a soffit to > >properly insulate pipe. Tell both no and get it in writing with > >builder he is responsible for freeze if he will not help. > > > > > > > >Top Myers > >RelMark Group > >961 Pottstown Pike > >Chester Springs, PA 19425 > >610-321-2415 X-219 Cell 610-952-0965 > >[email protected] > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] > >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >[email protected] > >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:01 PM > >To: Todd Williams; [email protected] > >Subject: Re: Anti Freeze for commercial > > > >Is it really necessary to remove every head? > >It will be diluted after being drained and refilled with water. > >Its not like we're working with gasoline. > >Forest Wilson > >Cherokee Fire > > > >Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > > >----- Reply message ----- > >From: "Todd Williams" <[email protected]> > >Date: Wed, Sep 15, 2010 1:30 pm > >Subject: Anti Freeze for commercial > >To: <[email protected]> > > > >If you take the heads out and let the stuff spill on the floor. I > >don't know if it would have enough suction to be reliable. > > > > > > > >At 01:25 PM 9/15/2010, you wrote: > > > >>Can you safely use a wet dry vacuum to make sure you get all of the > >>antifreeze out of a residential system? > >> > >>Or is that a stupid question? > >> > >>Greg > >>On 9/15/2010 10:57 AM, Todd Williams wrote: > >>>Maybe your cell mate, Dominick "The Hammer", could caddy for you. > >>> > >>> > >>>At 11:28 AM 9/15/2010, you wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> a-strip you of your assets > >>>> b-put u in jail > >>>> > >>>>any questions? > >>>> > >>>>glc > >>>> > >>>>Not having any assets worth taking, I'm looking for a new > >>>>retirement > >plan, > >>>>so I have a question: > >>>> > >>>>Would that be one of those nice Fed. Jails with a golf course and > >tennis? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>[email protected] > >>>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >>>> > >>>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>>>[email protected] > >>>> > >>>>To Unsubscribe, send an email > >to:[email protected] > >>>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >>> > >>>Todd G. Williams, PE > >>>Fire Protection Design/Consulting > >>>Stonington, CT > >>>860.535.2080 > >>>www.fpdc.com > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>[email protected] > >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >>> > >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>>[email protected] > >>> > >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email > >to:[email protected] > >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > >>-- > >>Greg C. McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC. 1160 McKenzie > >>Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 Fax 850-937-1852 > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>[email protected] > >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > >>[email protected] > >> > >>To Unsubscribe, send an email > >to:[email protected] > >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > >Todd G. Williams, PE > >Fire Protection Design/Consulting > >Stonington, CT > >860.535.2080 > >www.fpdc.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email > >to:[email protected] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email > >to:[email protected] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email > >to:[email protected] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email > >to:[email protected] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in > >this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3143 - Release Date: > >09/22/10 01:34:00 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
