This is kind of how I've always thought this out myself. That the hose stream allowance was for fighting hotspots with a hose while the sprinks were on so that would imply a private fire brigade or something for the fire guys to use while they were getting their gear hooked up. So if the sprinks did their job the fire guys can steal a little for overhaul (or pre overhaul if you will) then turn the sprinks off and use whatever they want to finish the job. If the sprinks haven't done the job hose allowance is mute since the fire guys are going to take whatever they want. Say you hang a bunch of deaf blind guys from the ceiling, tell them to start peeing if you feel hot and don't stop until somebody taps you on the foot. There's the automatic sprinkler system. Now a bunch of sighted guys show up and they all start peeing directly at the fire and moving around as necessary. If the guys on the ceiling were successful they guys coming to the party a little late won't need to fill up on as much beer before they get there than if those other guys weren't there, or ran out of pee, or felt hot and started peeing but only because the heat was convected to their position, the fire was elsewhere, and they couldn't make a good judgement call because they couldn't see or hear the fire. Oh yeah, if you have enough of these guys you can tell some of them to ignore the heat but to start screaming if they smell smoke. I'm too late for this cycle of 13 but the last piece is headed for 72 as soon as I post this email. There will be details to work out for ADA compliance.
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:09 AM, Brad <[email protected]> wrote: > Brian, > Once the FD gets there, isn't the Source all outside hose, so to speak? Our > pump can go back to sleep- (having done or not done its Auto job)- The FD > brings their own- just this morning they tightened this bolt, loosened that > gland, squirted some oil somewhere, wiped something down, then tested it > again. In your existing situation, calc the Auto aspect of the demand, then > ask the FD if they can live with 84 outside hose (on paper- they will try to > get whatever they need regardless of what the calc said). Inside FD Hose and > the Auto Pump? My gear and training permits me to at MOST yell FIRE as I > scramble to safety. Hopefully now the FM has said 'The city water is looking > for a boost- the Auto Pump is looking for something to boost... Viola!' Now > you can talk about Hose. Keep doing what yur doing- when we spell out our > understanding, backed up with a few numbers, we open ourselves to > correction, and thereby tend toward correctness :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Harris [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:01 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Hose Demand > > Jeff- > I guess it was just wishful thinking, that's why I was looking for others > opinions. Thanks for the help. > > Brian Harris > FDFP Inc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeff Hewitt > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 5:03 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Hose Demand > > I don't see where you get relief from the hose allowance. It's all from a > city source so it has to be accounted for, somewhere. You can only squeeze > out so much, and if it is not there, it's not there. Not including it means > not accounting for it, which is not correct in my opinion. > > Jeff Hewitt, PE, SET, SFPE (Professional Member) > Corporate Engineer > Bi-State Fire Protection Corporation > > 241 Hughes Lane > St. Charles, MO 63301 > 636-946-0011 > 636-946-5172 (fax) > 314-574-6989 (cell) > > Fire Sprinklers Save lives. > Can You Live Without Them? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 3:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Hose Demand > > This is an addition to an existing building so I can tie the inside hose > valves to the existing system side and not have them in the calc's for the > new side. I was hoping that I could eliminate the 250 outside hose. > > Brian Harris > FDFP Inc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:02 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Hose Demand > > Is there any place on the system to take a hose demand? > > > At 03:54 PM 10/5/2010, you wrote: >>Is it actually a private separate water supply, or just a private water > main >>that is ultimately fed from a public utility source? >> >>Jeff Hewitt, PE, SET, SFPE (Professional Member) >>Corporate Engineer >>Bi-State Fire Protection Corporation >> >>241 Hughes Lane >>St. Charles, MO 63301 >>636-946-0011 >>636-946-5172 (fax) >>314-574-6989 (cell) >> >>Fire Sprinklers Save lives. >>Can You Live Without Them? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris >>Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 2:35 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Hose Demand >> >>If I have a system with a pump that is fed from a private fire main as >>described in 3.8.1.11 (2007) am I allowed to exclude the hose stream from >>the calculations per 12.8.2? >> >> >> >>Brian Harris >> >>First Defense Fire Protection >> >>11957 Ramah Church Road >> >>Huntersville, NC 28078 >> >>Phone: 704.948.3506 >> >>Fax: 704.948.3507 >> >>Nicet # 128476 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>======= >>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16010) >>http://www.pctools.com/ >>======= >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16010) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16010) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16010) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16010) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
