That sounds a lot like Nevada. But on the topic of why does NICET use those ancient standards you need to remember they weren't ancient when the test was written. The cost of writing and vetting these tests, keeping them secure, and administrating the program are substantial. If the test questions for every field NICET tests for (remember sprinklers are just one field in four fire protection areas and fire protection is one field in….) were constantly updated every time a new edition hit the street the cost of testing would soar, eliciting more complaints. And though '96 will probably remain the edition in use for the remaining guys still finishing up element testing I suspect the new tests will be based on newer editions although I'm only guessing. I was asked to help in the development process and like the cook from Lonesome Dove when propositioned by the prostitute, I had the necessary cash, the desire, and the ability, but I unfortunately did not have the time. I'd have loved a roll in the hay with the new tests.
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:16 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > When the State or jurisdiction in question has not adopted the latest version > of the building and fire codes and the AHJ directs you to use the Standards > referenced in their adopted code and you have written confirmation to that > effect, you design to what their State law says is valid at that time. You > document your reservations and concerns and proceed. > > There are cases where an AHJ will allow you to design to a newer standard but > you have to use the whole standard and not pick and choose parts of it, > submitting it as an alternative method. This is not uncommon in some very > rural areas and especially in some States where the decision of what Codes to > use falls upon local governments since there is no State law mandating a > single code set or edition. > > I had a project early in the year where there was no State adopted code, they > deferred to the local jurisdiction, when contacting the local AHJ, they > basically said we could use whatever we chose to, the only inspections they > do were on septic tanks. I asked who inspected fire sprinkler and life > safety systems and was told they didn't inspect those systems. In another > area the AHJ stated that we were the engineers and he trusted our design to > be right so he didn't review shop drawings or do inspections, we were to > inspect our own work. > > Working around the country it is sometimes quite surprising what you run up > against when dealing with local authorities. Consistency is something that > is seriously lacking especially in our field. > > Septic tanks are more important than life safety systems obviously. > > > > Craig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Blackwell > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:58 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Physical Science :) > > Has anyone on the list gotten feedback from their insurance carrier regarding > using an old code [like the 1996 edition mentioned in the email below]? > > I'm guessing they wouldn't like you designing to such an old code minimum > which had inadequate minimum standards that were later fixed in newer > editions of the code. One glaring difference between 2010 & 1996 is in the > area of seismic protection which was upgraded after a couple of quakes in CA > demonstrated the code minimum requirements in that arena were insufficient. > If I were out in private practice I would be trying to design to the current > latest published editions so I didn't end up in court with a lawyer asking me > why I didn't use a more current edition... > > > > David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFI-I, CFPE > Engineering > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Office of State Fire Marshal > 141 Monticello Trail > Columbia, SC 29203 > Phone: 803.896.9833 > Fax: 803.896.9806 > Email: [email protected] > OSFM Website: http://www.llr.state.sc.us/firemarshal.asp > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:56 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Physical Science :) > > Sorry but when doing in-depth code analysis', there is no way you could find > every bit of information needed in a tabbed book versus doing a digital > search unless you have all the time in the world. There is stuff buried in > these texts that is not in the index and unless you've stumbled across it > before and tagged it, you'd never find it. > > Digital is here, now, not waiting for the next generation. > > As far as the question concerning why NICET uses particular versions, it is > probably due to the amount of work involved with reworking a test. Plus not > all jurisdictions jump on the new Standard immediately upon its publication. > I still have many jurisdictions using the 2002 NFPA 13 and had one earlier in > the year that was still on the 1996 version. It would be a significant task > to develop a new test each time a new standard came out. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Physical Science :) > > We old timers are used to paper, but the next generation will > probably be much more geared to digital. Somehow NICET and others > will need to adapt. Agencies are not going to continue print issues > just for some open book testing agency. I agree that finding > information in a tabbed text is still a lot quicker than a computer > search. But perhaps testing agencies will have to provide computer > access to certain reference materials as a part of the computer > testing procedure. > > Brian, as far as your question, I have wondered that as well. Perhaps > they use a random number generator > > > At 09:21 AM 11/3/2010, you wrote: >>Here's a question for some of you veterans, how does NICET come up with what >>year code will be on the test? I don't get why some of these codes are 2,3, >>and greater revisions behind the current one.... >> >>Brian Harris >>FDFP Inc. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church >>Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:22 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >> >>Its not as easy as it sounds to change a 30-year old certification program >>as you might think. >>While it's a PIA to drag around all the reference materials, you must also >>appreciate the numerous concerns and integrity requirements and restrictions >>faced by any testing agency. They need to prevent theft of test questions, >>they need to make sure you are using a hand calculator rather than allowing >>the possibility you'll run a calc program on a PC or programmable >>calculator, that you know where to look things up based on familiarity with >>the references rather than rely on a word search, etc. >> >>NICET is moving along with PC-based testing at readily accessible testing >>centers nationwide, with open scheduling and instant results. It's a large >>undertaking with substantial volunteer contribution to make it work. To >>speed it along, participate and donate your time and energy to the industry >>that puts food on your table. >> >>NICET is also facing some competition in the market which may or may not >>produce other streamlining of the process, but it is what it is and the >>integrity of the process demands checking and validating the changes, and >>that all takes time. Think of the 4 years +/- some of us have been involved >>in the process, lugging ourselves to Alexandria, and -not to sound like the >>proverbial schoolteacher, but I remember borrowing references from the >>Atlanta fire marshal so I had to spend Fri afternoon going downtown, lugging >>the books to the car, getting familiar with them Fri night, and lugging them >>to the exam and on Monday AM back to City Hall. It builds character and >>memories, like then-mayor Andrew Young getting in the elevator with me Fri >>and observing what a fun weekend I must be stocking up for :) >> >>glc >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>[email protected] >>Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:56 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: RE: Physical Science :) >> >>Really, all of our codes are now in digital format. Much easier to search >>and cheaper for the company. NICET needs to come into the 21st century with >>this. It's just crazy lugging 30-40 lbs of reference books to a test. Had >>one test that was on 2nd floor and had to tote the load up the stairs. Just >>plain ridiculous. >> >>Craig L. Prahl, CET >>Fire Protection >>CH2MHILL >>Lockwood Greene >>1500 International Drive >>Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>Direct - 864.599.4102 >>Fax - 864.599.8439 >>CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>[email protected] >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams >>Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 7:08 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Re: Physical Science :) >> >>And don't forget to put index tabs on your references and take a >>dictionary with you. >> >>What are they going to do when al this stuff is on our iPads? >> >> >>At 06:39 PM 11/2/2010, you wrote: >> >Same here, Brian. Of course I'm so old that when I took it with me >> >it was only one volume, not two. >> >-- >> > >> >PARSLEY CONSULTING >> > >> >Ken Wagoner, SET >> > >> >760.745.6181 voice >> > >> >760.745.0537 fax >> > >> >[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>e-mail >> > >> >www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com>website >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On 11/2/2010 2:46 PM, Jamie.seidl wrote: >> >>The fire protection handbook. It's all I used. >> >> >> >>Jamie >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>On Nov 2, 2010, at 5:08 PM, "Brian >> >>Harris"<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>>Any recommendations for good reference material for the Physical Science >> >>>portion of the Nicet test? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>Brian Harris >> >>> >> >>>First Defense Fire Protection >> >>> >> >>>11957 Ramah Church Road >> >>> >> >>>Huntersville, NC 28078 >> >>> >> >>>Phone: 704.948.3506 >> >>> >> >>>Fax: 704.948.3507 >> >>> >> >>>Nicet # 128476 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>======= >> >>>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >> >>>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16210) >> >>>http://www.pctools.com/ >> >>>======= >> >>>_______________________________________________ >> >>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>>[email protected] >> >>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>> >> >>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>> >> >>>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >>[email protected] >> >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>Todd G. Williams, PE >>Fire Protection Design/Consulting >>Stonington, CT >>860.535.2080 >>www.fpdc.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> >> >> >>======= >>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16220) >>http://www.pctools.com/ >>======= >> >> >> >> >> >>======= >>Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. >>(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16220) >>http://www.pctools.com/ >>======= >>_______________________________________________ >>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >>To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
