Individually, yes, collectively, no
At 09:46 AM 3/14/2011, you wrote: >Is there a single politician currently in practice (and they need all >the practice they can get considering how poor the quality of work is) >that can (can meaning both the ability and the need) to see beyond >the next check? > >On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:02 AM, George Church <[email protected]> wrote: >> In PA we seem to be celebrating burnt baby month, and it will remain a >> tradition forever the way the tide of the Bought in Harrisburg are moving. >> Sorry its neither new or exciting, but it sure is real. >> You'd think between 7 kids dying in one fire alone, and the effects of the >> disasters in Japan being mitigated by the strict building codes, it would be >> obvious this week (to those that can see beyond a campaign check) that there >> is value in having building codes to protect the populace. >> >> Sorry to be so blunt on a Monday AM, but the reality doesn't go away. The >> irony just makes the pandering for dollars so much more pathetic. >> >> glc >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 8:44 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Sprinkler under first accessible landing >> >> I've grown bored with BAF discussions. Need something new and exciting. >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 8:32 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Sprinkler under first accessible landing >> >> Traditionally, March is Big Ass Fans month. >> >> glc >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 8:27 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Sprinkler under first accessible landing >> >> And here's the simplified text from the 2010 commentary which says the same >> thing as the 2007 commentary. >> >> NFPA 13, 2010 -*The storage of materials in stairwells obstructs the egress >> route and is prohibited by NFPA 101. However, if there is an open space >> under the first landing or a large landing at the top of the stairs it is >> often an irresistible location for transient storage. As a result, >> 8.15.3.2.1 requires sprinklers at these locations." >> >> OK so let's find a new topic for this week. >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >> [email protected] >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Frans Stoop >> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:45 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Sprinkler under first accessible landing >> >> Craig, >> >> Don't be to greedy with the gold stars to that poor engineer or one >> day you might have to hand over one of your own. >> The engineer did not take any license, he only quoted the most recent >> edition of NFPA 13. >> The word "accessible" might not be in the 2007 edition, but it does >> show up in the 2010 edition: >> >> "8.15.3.2.1 In noncombustible stair shafts having noncombustible >> stairs with noncombustible or limited-combustible finishes, >> sprinklers shall be installed at the top of the shaft and under the >> first accessible landing above the bottom of the shaft." >> >> In fact the word "accessible" is the only difference in the wording >> of this paragraph between the two editions. >> >> Met vriendelijke groet / Yours sincerely, >> >> Frans Stoop >> TOS architecture & fire protection >> Netherlands <[email protected]> >> Tel. +31-24-324 0112 >> >> >> At 06:39 11-3-2011 -0700, you wrote: >>>Under the lowest landing due to the possibility of that space being >>>used for storage. If the space is totally enclosed then there is no >>>access for storage and no head is required if the stair is >>>non-combustible. The spec is correct. <sigh> The Engineer has >>>taken some license on his quote of the 13 section. The word >>>"accessible" is not in the script. So no gold star for him. >>> >>>NFPA 13, 2007 - 8.15.3.2.1 "In noncombustible stair shafts having >>>noncombustible stairs with noncombustible or limited combustible >>>finishes, sprinklers shall be installed at the top of the shaft and >>>under the first landing above the bottom of the shaft." >>> >>>Craig L. Prahl, CET >>>Fire Protection >>>CH2MHILL >>>Lockwood Greene >>>1500 International Drive >>>Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>>Direct - 864.599.4102 >>>Fax - 864.599.8439 >>>CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>>[email protected] >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: [email protected] >>>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cory Power >>>Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 7:19 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: Sprinkler under first accessible landing >>> >>>I have an an engineer asking to provide a sprinkler under the first >>>landing of a non-combustible stairwell. The spec for the job states that >>>"Sprinkler shall be installed at top of shaft. Space below first landing >>>is considered concealed, non-accessible, non-combustible, and hence does >>>not require sprinkler protection." >>> >>>he engineer who is reviewing my plans sent me an email stating the >>>following: >>> >>>*8.15.3.2 Noncombustible Construction.* >>> >>>*8.15.3.2.1 *In noncombustible stair shafts having noncombustible stairs >>>with noncombustible or limited-combustible finishes, sprinklers shall be >>>installed at the top of the shaft and under the first >>>accessible*landing*above the bottom of the shaft. >>> >>>We always took this to mean the sprinklers are required under the first >>>landing? And by accessible we took this to mean access could be provided >>>by a access panel.." >>> >>>Is this the way I should be interpreting the code? Do I still have to >>>sprinkler under the landing and make sure there's an access hatch? or >>>should I be able to omit it like the spec indicates? >>> >>>I have been following this forum for a while now. This is the first >>>question I have posted. >>> >>>- Cory >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > >-- >Ron Greenman >Instructor >Fire Protection Engineering Technology >Bates Technical College >1101 So. Yakima Ave. >Tacoma, WA 98405 > >[email protected] > >http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > >253.680.7346 >253.576.9700 (cell) > >Member: >ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > >They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
