Important information revealed. You'll probably get other feedback on this but the V-B construction type matched up with the A-3 use would seem to dictate a fully sprinklered 2-story building (IBC Table 503 and 504.2). If the architect is relying solely on 902.2.1.3 and 903.2.1 I believe he/she is missing the Table 503 implications. Of course this interpretation is based on a reading of the IBC and no other building specifics. To go to 2 stories the automatic sprinkler system must be per NFPA 13 (504.2 and 903.3.1.1) and here I'm not sure how a combustible attic can be excluded, even with draftstops, but maybe there's something I've missed.
With V-A construction the 2-story would seem to be acceptable, but then you would need to figure out if the "attic" is considered a story or not (see STORY definition on IBC page 20). If it is not a story then it could be considered part of the 2nd floor which would need to be sprinklered per 903.2.1. In either case you are led pretty much to a sprinklered attic, but this last part is my interpretation of where things would go. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 12:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Building trade off update Completely understand and as always appreciate your input my friend. V-B Basement 8,000 1st 8,500 2nd 8,000 Reviewing the referenced section 1018.1 and its exceptions. Thanks, Rod -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 9:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Building trade off update See IBC Table 1018.1, Note c. Also Also for our information, what is building construction type and what is area per floor? I'm trying to learn just as you are. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Building trade off update I wanted to follow up and let everyone who helped me think through the process know what happened. This was a new two story courthouse (A3) with a combustible attic above the 2nd floor and a single (B) occupancy attached adjacent on the ground floor. IBC 2009. He was sprinklering the basement, 1st and 2nd but not the attic. We met with the Architect and and asked him if he could educate us on his decision tree that allowed: 1. No sprinklers in the combustible attic that was draft stopped every 3,000 ft. 2. Install fire protection on the first and second floors (not required systems in the A3) to allow a reduction in fire rating of the corridor walls, stairs, and the wall separating the courtroom A3 from the B occupancy. 3. His logic for not mandating an increase of the design area on the 2nd floor to 3,000 ft. His answers were: 1. The IBC 2009 doesn't require sprinklers except for the basement, so NFPA 13 isn't applicable. 2. He stated that the IBC allows for reduction with partial systems. 901.2 "exception" 3. He believed that because partial systems are allowed and that because the code didn't require a system in the attic that we wouldn't need to increase our area on the 2nd floor even though the combustible attic above was unsprinklered. We took the advice of GC / Roland and others and listened and accepted what he said. The tone of the meeting was very good and at the end of the day I am glad he chose more sprinklers than required in lieu of more rating. I personally don't agree with the lack of increase in area ( question #3) but as it has been pointed out...... not my decision. Thanks for all the input and help. We learn and move on. Rod DiBona Rapid Fire Protection _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
