George, I think we are very close to going back to the equivalent of the 1929 Fire & Panic Act! Just think 7 months ago we were leading the nation!
Jay Stough ________________________________ From: George Church <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, June 23, 2011 4:49:08 PM Subject: RE: Building trade off update There's debate here in PA now about partial 13D systems to protect only the basement to avoid the drywall requirements of the 2012 IRC that must be met for LW construction in basements. Someone (a builder) asked if installing insulation above the bottom chord of the TJI was "equivalent" to drywall below- a really scary thought that someone would bother to ask such a thing. Neither 13D nor P2904 have wording for limited area systems, so we end up in the code being written as a whole, then piecemealed by legislators and administrators, then misinterpreted by builders who tend to be a little anti-sprinkler in these parts lately. Even if it is determined that a basement only system is acceptable, it certainly isn't anything Rowe Sprinkler is going to install. I call them "Maytag" systems. So the builder can use TJI's without drywall, we'd install sprinklers in the basement protecting the washer/dryer, leaving the residents upstairs to die in a fire? Sounds like work I don't mind giving up to the plumbers who don't understand liability issues. George L. Church, Jr., CET Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 1:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Building trade off update Yep....Thanks for the reminder but this one is documented to the hilt. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Building trade off update Only one question- was the mtg documented so you have a copy to take to court in 2014? George L. Church, Jr., CET Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Building trade off update I wanted to follow up and let everyone who helped me think through the process know what happened. This was a new two story courthouse (A3) with a combustible attic above the 2nd floor and a single (B) occupancy attached adjacent on the ground floor. IBC 2009. He was sprinklering the basement, 1st and 2nd but not the attic. We met with the Architect and and asked him if he could educate us on his decision tree that allowed: 1. No sprinklers in the combustible attic that was draft stopped every 3,000 ft. 2. Install fire protection on the first and second floors (not required systems in the A3) to allow a reduction in fire rating of the corridor walls, stairs, and the wall separating the courtroom A3 from the B occupancy. 3. His logic for not mandating an increase of the design area on the 2nd floor to 3,000 ft. His answers were: 1. The IBC 2009 doesn't require sprinklers except for the basement, so NFPA 13 isn't applicable. 2. He stated that the IBC allows for reduction with partial systems. 901.2 "exception" 3. He believed that because partial systems are allowed and that because the code didn't require a system in the attic that we wouldn't need to increase our area on the 2nd floor even though the combustible attic above was unsprinklered. We took the advice of GC / Roland and others and listened and accepted what he said. The tone of the meeting was very good and at the end of the day I am glad he chose more sprinklers than required in lieu of more rating. I personally don't agree with the lack of increase in area ( question #3) but as it has been pointed out...... not my decision. Thanks for all the input and help. We learn and move on. Rod DiBona Rapid Fire Protection _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
