You made me look. 2009 B105.2 Exception ... 1500 gpm minimum.

Ron Fletcher
Aero Automatic
Phoenix, AZ




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hose Stream

i'm showing 4000 with a 75% reduction for fully sprinklered.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Ronl.Fletcher <[email protected]>wrote:

> It is not ours to reason why, it is ours to comply. 13 says sprinkler +
> outside hose. IFC says exterior fire flow. Apples/Oranges.
>
> And isn't 1500 gpm the minimum fire flow per appendix B, sprinklers or not?
>
> Ron Fletcher
> Aero Automatic
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:48 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Hose Stream
>
> Thom,
>
> This does relate to a real building, 2-story, B & S-2, V-B, fully
> sprinklered and could have 1000 gpm total fire flow @ 20 psi but the FM
> wants 1500 @ 20. The pump is fine and the civil just over spec'd the tank
> size and included capacity for simultaneous full flow of hydrant and
> sprinks
> for 1 hour. The question though is theoretical because of the extra water
> and that if that amount of water were present in separate tanks the outside
> hose stream allowance for the sprinks wouldn't be required but is since
> it's
> in a single tank. And I couldn't remember the flow when I first asked the
> question and used 450 + hose just as a number. Actual flow for the building
> is 550 plus 250 but doesn't change the question since I could just be
> putting it as A=sprink, B=Hose allowance, C=Hydrant. Tank capacity = A + C.
> A + B < C so OK. C < Tank so OK. A + C = Tank so why do I need to include B
> in the A calc at all?
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Thom <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Brett: Be careful how you phrase that. The outside Hyd. May be the sole
> > water supply for fire flow, in which case depending on building
> > construction
> > and occupancy and size could require up to 8,000 GPM for 4 hours, "Fire
> > Flow" per the IFC appendix "B" table B105.1.
> > We need a lot more info before we can definitively say that a 1500GPM
> hose
> > allowance on top of sprinkler calc is adequate. Is the building fully
> > sprinklered per 13? What is the construction, total area, height,
> > occupancy,
> > who is AHJ and What is response time?
> >
> > So many questions?? So Little time!
> > I'm not trying to start a new thread, So please don't go off on
> specific's,
> > I'm just saying absolutes are rare.
> >
> > Subject: RE: Hose Stream
> >
> >  I would say that your system demand is 450 gpm and you have included a
> > hose
> > stream allowance of 1,500 gpm which is above and beyond the minimum
> > requirement.
> > Brett Foreman
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ron Greenman
> Instructor
> Fire Protection Engineering Technology
> Bates Technical College
> 1101 So. Yakima Ave.
> Tacoma, WA 98405
>
> [email protected]
>
> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
>
> 253.680.7346
> 253.576.9700 (cell)
>
> Member:
> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC
>
> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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-- 
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405

[email protected]

http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/

253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)

Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC

They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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