I heard more about this today from an Illinois plumbing inspector. For
those interested, they (or maybe just he) consider a fire hydrant as a
device to which applies Part 890 Plumbing Code Section 890.1140
"Special Applications and Installations". The catching sections are
890.1140 e) 1) and 890.1140 e) 2) A) i). All the applications and
installations mentioned by this section, i.e. that which are special,
are hose outlets, yard hydrants with weeps, flush valves, laundry
machines, dishwashers, medical water aspirators, mobile homes and
carbonated beverage machines.
One would think that section title "Special Applications and
Installations" intends to single out specifically named applications
and installations. For example there is a trade distinction between
Yard Hydrants and Fire Hydrants that any reasonable tradesman would
know. If this code truly intends to apply to both Yard Hydrants and
Fire Hydrants then it would not be "special" and the wording would be
"Hydrants". Incidentally there is no mention of any fire protection
related devices at all in the section. All mention of fire protection
devices, which surely must have special distinction to most, occurs in
a different 890 subsection. Claiming this section applies also to fire
protection is to expand its special scope to included another very
special application, thereby denying the section's purpose.
The question stills stands for those in the Illinois area. Is this
actually the state's stance? For the case where I heard about this,
the "state" will be making another arm of the "state" put an RPZ
device in a hot box on the piping between an ordinary, existing fire
hydrant and the private main it connects to, because that one hydrant
is being moved due to a new drive and that section of existing
underground is being replace, not as its own small project but as part
of a much larger project.
Allan Seidel
St. Louis, MO
On Jun 6, 2012, at 8:13 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
The 2006 Uniform Plumbing Code 603.4.16.1requires backflows in lines
to FP systems. RPZ's are required for systems with chemicals like
antifreeze or AFFF and double checks for others. It says they are
not required for private hydrant only lines that comply with city
water main and AWWA standards.
To the best of my knowledge there is no requirement in the
International Plumbing Code.
Ron Fletcher
Aero Automatic
Phoenix, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of Timothy W Goins
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 5:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RPZ for a dedicated private underground fire mains
having fire hydrants
Most THINK that the AWWA recommends BFP's on ALL firelines,
especially deadened lines over 100 feet, but the AWWA does NOT
recommend backflow protection on hydrant only lines.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel , , because it is God’s power
for salvation to everyone who believes..." HCS Romans 1:16
On Jun 6, 2012, at 12:56 AM, [email protected] wrote:
accounting departments see plus signs when they see marketing
department, lunch n learn, and regulatory agencies on the same
spread sheet line lol (and some consulting engineering firms).
Steve- can you explain the USC friction loss graphs? there is some
diff in turning on and turning off?
Quoting Ron Greenman <[email protected]>:
I think the backflow prevention device manufacturers have a lot of
influence with a fair share of regulatory agencies.
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]
>wrote:
Private fire service mains in CA have required backflows for years.
The type of device varies by water authority standards, but pretty
much throughout Southern California the use of an RPDA is
standard practice.
Whether the downstream connections are sprinklers only, plus one
hydrant or with multiple hydrants, a backflow appliance is
required on a private
fire service main. The thinking isn't that hydrants represent a
cross
connection or contamination threat per se, but that a private
property owner can make whatever connections they want in the
dark of night after
final acceptance testing. So better safe than sorry,
bureaucratically
speaking ...
SML
In SoCal, where nothing surprises anymore
________________________________
From: [email protected] on behalf of
AKS-Gmail-IMAP
Sent: Tue 6/5/2012 7:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RPZ for a dedicated private underground fire mains having
fire hydrants
I am hearing that in Illinois the state plumbing inspectors insist
on RPZ back flow prevention for fire hydrants on dedicated
underground private service mains. What is up with that?
Allan Seidel
St. Louis. MO
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--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405
[email protected]
http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/
253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)
Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC
They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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