If only it relied on good judgment. The last comment from the AHJ was "a hose allowance was included in the hydraulic calculations so the hose stations have to be installed". I think we making some progress on educating the AHJ, without their knowledge of course. This place is special, the inspector shut the job down because the installed pipe to the TI heads was different than the arm overs shown on the plans.
Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:02 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: 2007 12.2.1 Small hose stations And there's the very simplistic conflict between widely accepted good practices for evacuation and the attractive nuisance of a hose station. We want the lift driver to run out of the building ASAP, not grab an appliance they've never been trained on and run TOWARDS the fire. NFPA 25 allows for removal of hose during ITM, with the approval of the AHJ. Boiling existing hose stations down to just a valve the could be used by trained personnel in response to a fire makes more sense. Removing them entirely if the responding FD has no use for them makes sense. Installing these valves at the exterior fire access points so that responders can connect as they enter the building makes sense. We do have some proactive options available to use as installers/inspectors/consultants, but one has to take the bull by the horns and reach out to the AHJ to determine the extent of their energies about these connections, and also whether they have a preferred course of action. SL ________________________________ From: [email protected] on behalf of Ron Greenman Sent: Mon 6/11/2012 5:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 2007 12.2.1 Small hose stations The problem is who uses these. In an industrial setting with a fire brigade or at least some guys with a little training in fire fighting and practice with the hose. I think the problem, or at least as stated to me by FD guys is you Billy Joe the lift driver shooting water at the top of the flames. He isn't hurting, probably isn't helping either, but he's in the building instead of getting out, and when the FD arrives rescue takes precedence over suppression. The whole scenario gets more dangerous for everyone and draws in more responders than would otherwise be necessary. Just like having an entire community sprinklered changes tactical planning I think eliminating what may be considered an attractive nuisance for the untrained may have some impact of the FD. On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 4:18 PM, å... .... <[email protected]> wrote: > Until solid statistical evidence > is produced, I guess we are left > will little more than opinions and > speculation, relegated > to tossing events and outliers from > the database and leaving them as > one-off examples in the rubbish bin > sample space. > > My opinion is America lost some > serious mojo over its small hose > issue. > > > *Factory Mutual Data Sheet 8-9* > > *§ 3.2 Loss History* > > *July 2011 * > > > The use of hoses use was identified in 87% of the incidents that > operated > > ten or fewer sprinklers and, when hoses were used, they were applied > > either before sprinklers operated or before fire control was achieved > in > > a little more than 50% of the cases. This strong correlation suggests > early > > application of hose streams has a significant effect on the average > number > > of sprinklers that operate in rack storage fires (it would follow that > this is > > also true for solid-piled / palletized storage fires), and that > provision of > > small hose stations is a key element in the overall protection scheme. > > It is impossible to say how many catastrophic fires may have been > > prevented by early intervention using hoses. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac > hments/20120612/7f38694c/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120611/0f3e727f/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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