A couple of jurisdictions around here require a horizontal Class I pipe in certain types of occupancies of certain sizes. I always hated this from a save the owner money and where does the code say that point of view, but it makes very good practical sense. The one building that really drove me crazy though was the one that you could pull a hose from the fire station to. Biggest issue I think was was it far enough away fro te fire station to not be a thret and vice versa ;-p
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]>wrote: > And there's the very simplistic conflict between widely accepted good > practices for evacuation and the attractive nuisance of a hose station. > We want the lift driver to run out of the building ASAP, not grab an > appliance they've never been trained on and run TOWARDS the fire. NFPA > 25 allows for removal of hose during ITM, with the approval of the AHJ. > Boiling existing hose stations down to just a valve the could be used by > trained personnel in response to a fire makes more sense. Removing them > entirely if the responding FD has no use for them makes sense. Installing > these valves at the exterior fire access points so that responders can > connect as they enter the building makes sense. We do have some proactive > options available to use as installers/inspectors/consultants, but one has > to take the bull by the horns and reach out to the AHJ to determine the > extent of their energies about these connections, and also whether they > have a preferred course of action. > > SL > > ________________________________ > > From: [email protected] on behalf of Ron Greenman > Sent: Mon 6/11/2012 5:19 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: 2007 12.2.1 Small hose stations > > > > The problem is who uses these. In an industrial setting with a fire brigade > or at least some guys with a little training in fire fighting and practice > with the hose. I think the problem, or at least as stated to me by FD guys > is you Billy Joe the lift driver shooting water at the top of the flames. > He isn't hurting, probably isn't helping either, but he's in the building > instead of getting out, and when the FD arrives rescue takes precedence > over suppression. The whole scenario gets more dangerous for everyone and > draws in more responders than would otherwise be necessary. Just like > having an entire community sprinklered changes tactical planning I think > eliminating what may be considered an attractive nuisance for the untrained > may have some impact of the FD. > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 4:18 PM, å... .... <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Until solid statistical evidence > > is produced, I guess we are left > > will little more than opinions and > > speculation, relegated > > to tossing events and outliers from > > the database and leaving them as > > one-off examples in the rubbish bin > > sample space. > > > > My opinion is America lost some > > serious mojo over its small hose > > issue. > > > > > > *Factory Mutual Data Sheet 8-9* > > > > *§ 3.2 Loss History* > > > > *July 2011 * > > > > > > The use of hoses use was identified in 87% of the incidents that operated > > > > ten or fewer sprinklers and, when hoses were used, they were applied > > > > either before sprinklers operated or before fire control was achieved in > > > > a little more than 50% of the cases. This strong correlation suggests > early > > > > application of hose streams has a significant effect on the average > number > > > > of sprinklers that operate in rack storage fires (it would follow that > this > > is > > > > also true for solid-piled / palletized storage fires), and that provision > > of > > > > small hose stations is a key element in the overall protection scheme. > > > > It is impossible to say how many catastrophic fires may have been > > > > prevented by early intervention using hoses. > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120612/7f38694c/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120611/0f3e727f/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120612/53d18338/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120612/2efc271d/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
