So if the curtain wasn't made of a flexible material, presumably treated with a fire retardant, but a shoji screen made out of paper and 1x1s that would make such a significant difference as to change OH2 to LH? What about unsprinklered movie theaters with horizontally closing curtains in front of the screen above a raised platform? Tomorrow's performing arts center? And what if the fifth grade production of Tom Turkey's Last Thanksgiving (no puritans, too religious, no Indians, er, Native Americans, for obvious PC reasons, no turkey dinners per PETA injunction) morphs into the primiere of "The Fires of Iraq," complete with burning oil wells? Do we worry about this "possibility" while designing the MP room? What if you leave out the platform but keep the curtain? What if you build this incidental platform with wheels and only roll it over to where the curtain is during Tom's Last Stand? Do I need the sarcasm emoticon?
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 4:4PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]>wrote: > Oops. Started to say that there is a limit to what kind of a "production" > they can stage under a low ceiling. Big difference between 7 year olds > recreating the first thanksgiving, with a paper mache turkey on an 8 foot > folding table and the Pirates of Penzance with the painted wooden poop > deck of a ship hanging 25' in the air overhead. > > Steve > > John Drucker <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ps. Have seen many a platform morph into performing arts long after the > engineers are gone and the pta takes their place > John Drucker - Mobile Email > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Drucker > To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]> > Sent: Wed Jul 25 18:54:35 2012 > Subject: Re: Stage/platform > > Get rid of the curtain... LH. Done > John Drucker - Mobile Email > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Sent: Wed Jul 25 18:39:08 2012 > Subject: RE: Stage/platform > > Agree with you up to the end. It's a Multi-Purpose building with a > platform that has a low ceiling and a horizontally closing curtain. Not > a performing arts center or other "legitimate" stage type of facility. > So the building is used for PTA meetings, student assemblies and > cafeteria seating; it's a smaller A-group with a raised platform that > faces the main seating area, and I see the whole thing as light hazard. > > > The plans reviewer brought this up at the very end of a backcheck. The > entire design is approved, and this wasn't a correction on the first > plan check. She brought it up right before we were to get signed off and > it's a big deal because the riser is at the other end of the building. > So this will change our piping plan and RCP over the platform, main > size, seismic bracing calc's, detail sheet, etc., etc. That's why it's > a BFD ... > > SML > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John > Drucker > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 3:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Stage/platform > > > For example.......... An A-1 Theatre, IIA Construction, 1 story, 10,000 > sf in area, exit discharge at grade, occupant load of 299. Does the > building need sprinklers ? > > 903.2.1.1 Group A-1. > > An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for Group A-1 > occupancies where ONE of the following conditions exists: > 1. The fire area exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2). > 2. The fire area has an occupant load of 300 or more. > 3. The fire area is located on a floor other than the level of exit > discharge. > 4. The fire area contains a multitheater complex. > > Lets add a Stage........ > > 401.1 Detailed use and occupancy requirements. > > In ADDITION to the occupancy and construction requirements in this code, > the provisions of this chapter apply to the special uses and occupancies > described herein. > > [F] 410.6 Automatic sprinkler system. > Stages shall be equipped with an automatic fire-extinguishing system in > accordance with Chapter 9. Sprinklers shall be installed under the roof > and gridiron and under all catwalks and galleries over the stage. > Sprinklers shall be installed in dressing rooms, performer lounges, > shops and storerooms accessory to such stages. > > Exceptions: > 1. Sprinklers are not required under stage areas less than 4 feet > (1219 > mm) in clear height that are utilized exclusively for storage of tables > and chairs, provided the concealed space is separated from the adjacent > spaces by not less than 5/8-inch (15.9 mm) Type X gypsum board. > 2. Sprinklers are not required for stages 1,000 square feet (93 m2) > or > less in area and 50 feet (15 240 mm) or less in height where curtains, > scenery or other combustible hangings are not retractable vertically. > Combustible hangings shall be limited to a single main curtain, borders, > legs and a single backdrop. > 3. Sprinklers are not required within portable orchestra enclosures > on > stages. > > So 410.6 could require the suppression of a stage in an otherwise > unsprinklered building. Of course I really oversimplified this, > obviously means of egress figures into the equation. > > If your building requires sprinklers based in 903, 410.6 is a mute point > since sprinklers are required throughout and the density based on the > hazard from 13, OH-2. > > John > > > John Drucker, CET > Fire Protection Subcode Official > Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector > Fire Marshals Office > Borough of Red Bank, NJ > > Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or > otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and > approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve > Leyton > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:16 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Stage/platform > > But 410.6 excepts sprinklers where stages are less than 1,000 s.f. in > area and 50' high AND where there is only a "main curtain". This is the > fulcrum of the widget: they're saying that the curtain that closes in > front of the > stage is an "overhead hanging curtain". This thing has a t-bar > ceiling at > 9'-0 or 10'-0. > > We're putting in sprinklers either way as it's a fully sprinklered > building but absent a volume of "flag and bag" space above the stage, > OH-2 is a BFD and in my opinion not required on this particular > application. > > > Steve > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John > Drucker > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 3:10 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Stage/platform > > 2006 IBC Commentary...................... > > Platform > > "Platforms are raised areas that are used for public performances and > presentations that EXCEPT FOR LIGHTING DO NOT INCORPORATE ANY OVERHEAD > HANGING CURTAINS, DROPS, SCENERY OR STAGE EFFECTS." > > > OVERHEAD HANGING CURTAINS..... It's a stage. > > Sprinklers.... 410.6 > Standpipes (You're favorite) .... 410.7 > > Hope that helps, > > John Drucker, CET > Fire Protection Subcode Official > Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector > Fire Marshals Office > Borough of Red Bank, NJ > > Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or > otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and > approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve > Leyton > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:59 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Stage/platform > > Friends, Romans, Forumite and Drucker: > > I have a plans reviewer with whom we are dancing about on the subject of > defining a "platform" vs. a "stage". Probably the largest part of the > conversation has to do with "overhead hanging curtains". The definition > of a stage is basically a space within a building used for entertainment > or presentations that includes "overhead hanging curtains, drops, > scenery or stage effects other than lighting and sound." > > My take is that this space in an elementary school MP buildings is a > platform because it only has lighting and sound overhead. Their take is > that it's a stage because it has a curtain that can be drawn across its > front. Anyone have a more specific definition or code citation for > what constitutes an overhead hanging curtain? > > Steve Leyton > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY: > This email message is intended only for the use of the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is > privileged and confidential, nor is it, unless specifically stated, > intended to be relied upon by any person or persons other than the > individual or entity named above and no warranties or representations are > made or intended to persons or entities not named above. If the reader is > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please > notify us immediately by telephone, return this message to the address > above and delete all copies. Thank you. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachme > nts/20120725/9d2d4858/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. 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