I'm really trying to pull something tangible out of this discussion so please bear with me. You stated, " If you are in an IBC state it is a stage." Why? A platform allows for performances, a platform allows for lighting and sound. A platform DOESN'T allow for overhead stuff ... what I'm reaching for is that line - do you think it's the curtain that closes in front of the state? If so, are you agreeing with the interp that it's an "overhead hanging curtain"? Do you not see a distinction between curtains that are retractable and a curtain that is on a fixed track?
Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David E. Herbert Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Stage/platform Remember that the IBC has different definitions. If you are in an IBC state it is a stage. If you are in an NFPA 101 state, it may not be a stage. And if you are lucky enough to be in a state that uses both IBC and 101,,,,,,,,, at least in the one I work in now, the most stringent applies, which in this case appears to be IBC so I guess we are back to being a stage.... It was so much easier working with only one code in my former life in the State of Drucker. Dave Herbert now in the Sunshine State From: Bob <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: RE: Stage/platform Again, I'm looking at an older version of 101, but it talks specifically to the Platform by stating, "A.3.149. The raised area within a building used for the presentation of music, plays, or other entertainment" and "A.3.3.149. Platforms also include the head tables for special guest; that raised area for lectures and speakers; .... and for similar purposes wherein there are no overhead drops, pieces of scenery, or stage affects other than lighting and a screening valance. A platform is not intended to be prohibited from using a curtain as a valance to screen or hide the electric conduit, lighting track, or similar fixtures, nor is a platform prohibited from using curtains that are used to obscure the back wall of the stage; a curtain between the auditorium and the stage (grand or house curtain), a maximum of four leg drops; or a valance to screen lights, plumbing, and similar equipment from view." The OH design criteria appears to kick in when a platform is no longer a platform and it becomes a legitimate stage. There are specifics that trigger the protection requirements such as area (1000 sf), height (50'), and vertically retractable scenery. A small platform that has curtains is not a stage and therefore does not need to be treated and protected as such. Bob Knight, CET III 208-318-3057 www.firebyknight.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 8:27 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Stage/platform You kmow, that's really well put. Same idea with a meeting room that has moving partitions. Steve "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: Do floor to ceiling curtains in an office with 10 ft. ceiling change the office to OH? Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 3:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Stage/platform Get rid of the curtain... LH. Done John Drucker - Mobile Email ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Wed Jul 25 18:39:08 2012 Subject: RE: Stage/platform Agree with you up to the end. It's a Multi-Purpose building with a platform that has a low ceiling and a horizontally closing curtain. Not a performing arts center or other "legitimate" stage type of facility. So the building is used for PTA meetings, student assemblies and cafeteria seating; it's a smaller A-group with a raised platform that faces the main seating area, and I see the whole thing as light hazard. The plans reviewer brought this up at the very end of a backcheck. The entire design is approved, and this wasn't a correction on the first plan check. She brought it up right before we were to get signed off and it's a big deal because the riser is at the other end of the building. So this will change our piping plan and RCP over the platform, main size, seismic bracing calc's, detail sheet, etc., etc. That's why it's a BFD ... SML -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 3:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Stage/platform For example.......... An A-1 Theatre, IIA Construction, 1 story, 10,000 sf in area, exit discharge at grade, occupant load of 299. Does the building need sprinklers ? 903.2.1.1 Group A-1. An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for Group A-1 occupancies where ONE of the following conditions exists: 1. The fire area exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2). 2. The fire area has an occupant load of 300 or more. 3. The fire area is located on a floor other than the level of exit discharge. 4. The fire area contains a multitheater complex. Lets add a Stage........ 401.1 Detailed use and occupancy requirements. In ADDITION to the occupancy and construction requirements in this code, the provisions of this chapter apply to the special uses and occupancies described herein. [F] 410.6 Automatic sprinkler system. Stages shall be equipped with an automatic fire-extinguishing system in accordance with Chapter 9. Sprinklers shall be installed under the roof and gridiron and under all catwalks and galleries over the stage. Sprinklers shall be installed in dressing rooms, performer lounges, shops and storerooms accessory to such stages. Exceptions: 1. Sprinklers are not required under stage areas less than 4 feet (1219 mm) in clear height that are utilized exclusively for storage of tables and chairs, provided the concealed space is separated from the adjacent spaces by not less than 5/8-inch (15.9 mm) Type X gypsum board. 2. Sprinklers are not required for stages 1,000 square feet (93 m2) or less in area and 50 feet (15 240 mm) or less in height where curtains, scenery or other combustible hangings are not retractable vertically. Combustible hangings shall be limited to a single main curtain, borders, legs and a single backdrop. 3. Sprinklers are not required within portable orchestra enclosures on stages. So 410.6 could require the suppression of a stage in an otherwise unsprinklered building. Of course I really oversimplified this, obviously means of egress figures into the equation. If your building requires sprinklers based in 903, 410.6 is a mute point since sprinklers are required throughout and the density based on the hazard from 13, OH-2. John John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Stage/platform But 410.6 excepts sprinklers where stages are less than 1,000 s.f. in area and 50' high AND where there is only a "main curtain". This is the fulcrum of the widget: they're saying that the curtain that closes in front of the stage is an "overhead hanging curtain". This thing has a t-bar ceiling at 9'-0 or 10'-0. We're putting in sprinklers either way as it's a fully sprinklered building but absent a volume of "flag and bag" space above the stage, OH-2 is a BFD and in my opinion not required on this particular application. Steve -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 3:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Stage/platform 2006 IBC Commentary...................... Platform "Platforms are raised areas that are used for public performances and presentations that EXCEPT FOR LIGHTING DO NOT INCORPORATE ANY OVERHEAD HANGING CURTAINS, DROPS, SCENERY OR STAGE EFFECTS." OVERHEAD HANGING CURTAINS..... It's a stage. Sprinklers.... 410.6 Standpipes (You're favorite) .... 410.7 Hope that helps, John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ Not the official position of any agency, association, committee or otherwise. Obtain required applications, permits, inspections and approvals from Authority(s) Having Jurisdiction. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:59 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Stage/platform Friends, Romans, Forumite and Drucker: I have a plans reviewer with whom we are dancing about on the subject of defining a "platform" vs. a "stage". Probably the largest part of the conversation has to do with "overhead hanging curtains". The definition of a stage is basically a space within a building used for entertainment or presentations that includes "overhead hanging curtains, drops, scenery or stage effects other than lighting and sound." My take is that this space in an elementary school MP buildings is a platform because it only has lighting and sound overhead. Their take is that it's a stage because it has a curtain that can be drawn across its front. Anyone have a more specific definition or code citation for what constitutes an overhead hanging curtain? 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