Spell-check screwed this up a bit.
Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? MOU is Memorandum of Understanding. Meaning his jurisdiction has a deal with the SFM ceding local authority to his agency. His mischaracterizing it though, to say that it means he can do whatever he wants. The code section he refers to is sarcastically called "The God Clause", as many fire officials believe it's all-empowering. In CA, the operating relationship between LFA's and the SFM is that and LFA is charged with enforcing state code, but can exceed that when there is a compelling situation or condition, and they can amend state code through a process that involves ordinance and filing a white paper with the OSFM. Under our current SFM, I find that our state is working very, very well in that regard and when a local wants or needs something above and beyond, they generally require it in a lucid, substantiated and documented manner. Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? Hehe, I like that. "I told them that if we were the EOR then we would have appreciated the opportunity to develop the bid docs and collect the fee..." I may use that in the future if that's okay? Ron Fletcher Aero Phoneix -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:17 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? Well I don't blame you for venting. This is becoming more and more common. It is simply not right. I have a similar situation with regards to who is the EOR. They do the life safety report, drawings and specifications that we are tied to and that bears their stamp. When the rubber meets the road they claim we are the design build contractor. I like our chances in arbitration but is it worth it? Sometimes you lose even when you win. I told them that if we were the EOR then we would have appreciated the opportunity to develop the bid docs and collect the fee....No response... Rod at Rapid -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:17 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? The following are parts of the FM's response to my email pointing out the code language. Names and places are left out so I don't get more trouble than I'm already in. "Stop! This is not a debate nor will this discussion continue." ... "I do not have time, nor does my staff to go back and forth with you on this and it will hold up the project." Is he threatening to hold up the project? "By MOU (what is MOU?) with the State Fire Marshal, I am the only authority for fire code for blah blah balh. Read Section 104.1, 104.8 and many other sections ...it is my authority to enforce, interpret, and approve modifications of alternative methods to meet the intent, or increase the minimum code requirements." I love the sprinkler business. Where else can we lowly contractors come in contact with such powerful and influential leaders? (lol) Needless to say we are installing the SP system shown on the contract drawings even though it doesn't meet code. We were also informed by the consultant that did the drawings (a nationally known FP firm) that their drawings were to show possible pipe routing for space allocation with other trades and are not to be interpreted as installation drawings. They also pointed out the we, Aero, are the EOR not them. Even though they did a life safety report and 4 or 5 FP plans for the project with a PE stamp. I'm probably going to get hand slapped for this but I needed to vent. Ron Fletcher Aero Phoenix -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce Verhei Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? Note comment is to million sf, not small building being discussed. Have you had discussion with architect. They should be familiar with any site specific items done as trade offs. It is rather uncommon for these to be included in bid requests. Bv Bv -----Original message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 21:03:41 GMT+00:00 Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? We have done a few million plus sqft. one story buildings (distribution center). The biggest issue usually is the 250' verses 400' exit travel and smoke vents with ESFR's. No standpipes required. Ron Fletcher Aero Phoneix -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fairchild, Jack Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:17 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? Looks like 905.4 remains relatively unchanged in 2012, but there is zero reference as to when to apply it. What about a million sq.ft. single story building? Jack Fairchild -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:58 PM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? Interesting interpretation. FYI, the 2012 edition removed "and in the locations indicated in Section905.4, 905.5, and 905.6". Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Jack [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? 2009 IFC 905.3 read strictly does not tie standpipe hose connections to height. It states ..."where required by sections 905.3.1 through 905.3.7 and in the locations indicated in Sections 905.4, 905.5, and 905.6." Section 905.4 needs to be applied regardless of 905.3.1 because of the "and" after 905.3.1 in section 905.3. (wow that's wordy). Personally I do not believe the intent is to provide hose connections in any building that has more than one floor or where the fire truck is more than 200 feet from any point in the building, but I see how it could be read that way. I always thought 905.4 was intended for very expansive buildings such as those seen out west. Maybe this section should be tied to a square footage. Jack Fairchild -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:21 PM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? Per IBC: 905.3.1 Class III standpipe systems shall be installed throughout buildings where the floor level of the highest story is located more than 30 feet (9144 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access, or where the floor level of the lowest story is located more than 30 feet (9144 mm) below the highest level of fire department vehicle access. STORY. That portion of a building included between the upper surface of a floor and the upper surface of the floor or roof next above (also see "Basement," "Building height," "Grade plane" and "Mezzanine"). It is measured as the vertical distance from top to top of two successive tiers of beams or finished floor surfaces and, for the topmost story, from the top of the floor finish to the top of the ceiling joists or, where there is not a ceiling, to the top of the roof rafters. MEZZANINE. An intermediate level or levels between the floor and ceiling of any story and in accordance with Section 505. 505.2 Mezzanines. A mezzanine or mezzanines in compliance with Section 505.2 shall be considered a portion of the story below. A 32' high mezzanine doesn't constitute standpipes. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? A small 2 story area the rest is all one story. There is a running track on a mezzanine that circles the gym that is at 32 ft. high but it is open to the gym. This is an addition to a building that is sprinklered but without standpipes. The new addition meets all the exiting and egress requirements so that is not an issue. Ron Fletcher Aero Phoenix -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 9:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Marshal requirement? How many stories is the building, and on what floor is this condition? Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:16 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Fire Marshal requirement? This from a Fire Marshal for a large University in AZ. We were having trouble locating hose valves in the one story area of the building. There are only two stairs in the building and they are more than 200 ft. from parts of the gymnasium. We reviewed the code and offered a credit to delete the standpipe system because we didn't think it was required. This the response from the FM. He wants all interior points to be with 150 feet from where they park a fire truck. "If you send a too scale plan from where fire trucks will be at all points of entry to the building and can show that nothing is more than 150' I will entertain the suggestion of no standpipes. I have seen everything that ****** has been shown and it is not represented well. This includes the existing building since the existing building had adequate coverage and did not need a standpipe before the add-on. Now that there is an add-on where there is no access at the center point it affects both the new and old and we need assurance with a too scale drawing from fire truck to all areas of all floors. Discussing it does not solve anything until you can also prove it on paper too scale "as the hose lays and not the crow flys." I have difficulty finding a way to talk to someone like this. Ron Fletcher Aero Phoenix _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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