You are correct, it all depends on the applicable code and approved ammendments.
NFPA 1: 18.4.5.2.1 Required fire flow shall be reduced by 75 percent when the building is protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system. The resulting fire flow shall not be less than 1000 gpm (3785 L/min). 18.4.5.2.2 Required fire flow shall be reduced by 75 percent when the building is protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system, which utilizes quick response sprinklers throughout. The resulting fire flow shall not be less than 600 gpm (2270 L/min). Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Steve Leyton [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sizing tanks with hydrants? But the IFC says that fire flow MAY be reduced up to 75% as approved by the Fire Official. Most jurisdictions that accept a reduction - at least out here in CA - offer 50%, but not 75%. I have dealt with fire departments that only offer 25% when certain more hazardous conditions exist, such as Type V wood framed buildings over a certain height, like three or four stories. And we have one FD here in San Diego county that offers NO reduction, which makes for a lot of "Oh Sh*t!" moments on larger projects when the fire flow calc's out to 4,500 or 5,000 gpm. Usually followed by "The 2-Hour Wall Game" and fire sprinkler density upgrades ... Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 11:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sizing tanks with hydrants? Forgot this one: NFPA 1:18.4.5.2.1 Required fire flow shall be reduced by 75 percent when the building is protected throughout by an approved automatic sprinkler system. The resulting fire flow shall not be less than 1000 gpm (3785 L/min). Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sizing tanks with hydrants? NFPA 1:18.4.1* Scope. A.18.4.1 Section 18.4 and the associated tables are only applicable for determining minimum water supplies for manual fire suppression efforts. Water supplies for fire protection systems are not addressed by this section. It is not the intent to add the minimum fire protection water supplies, such as for a fire sprinkler system, to the minimum fire flow for manual fire suppression purposes required by this section. >From the Handbook: The explanatory material in A.18.4.1 clarifies that the intent of the Code is not to add the fire flow calculated in accordance with Section 18.4 to an automatic sprinkler system demand. For sprinklered buildings, the required water supply should be the greater of either that specified by Section 18.4 or the demand for the automatic sprinkler system. Section 18.4 is used to calculate the required fire flow for manual fire-fighting purposes and does not take into account fire suppression systems or hose stream requirements required by other codes and standards, such as NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems. Fire protection system water supply requirements are not permitted to take advantage of the reduction in fire flow in 18.4.5. If you are in a rural area, see also NFPA 1142. There is another method to calculate the required water supply... Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Gillett [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sizing tanks with hydrants? No. This is a tech school. Bobby Gillett Sr. Project Manager Key Fire Protection, Inc. (731) 424-0130 office (731) 424-9285 fax (731) 267-4853 cell www.keyfireprotection.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Art Tiroly Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 12:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Sizing tanks with hydrants? The building will never be used for high piled storage right? Arthur Tiroly ATCO Fire Protection Design Tiroly and Associates 24400 Highland Rd rm 25, CLE 44143 216-621-8899 216-570-7030 Cell WWW.ATCOfirepro.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bobby Gillett Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Sizing tanks with hydrants? When sizing a water storage tank feeding a fire pump for a new facility with multiple sprinkler systems and fire hydrants, do you have to include any type of allowance for the hydrants? The tank will be the sole source of supply for all (rural area). There will be no hose stations or standpipes, only interior sprinkler systems - OH Group II with monitored alarms. Typically this would be an 18,000 gallon tank minimum (.20x1500x60 mins). I don't see anywhere that requires this, just making sure. Thank you in advance. Bobby Gillett Sr. Project Manager Key Fire Protection, Inc. (731) 424-0130 office (731) 424-9285 fax (731) 267-4853 cell <http://www.keyfireprotection.com> www.keyfireprotection.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2241 / Virus Database: 3162/5820 - Release Date: 05/13/13 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org ----- No virus found in this message. 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