Yes C. Burton, Annex B of NFPA 72 is incredibly enlightening (I 'discovered' it about 6 years ago). I just think if some simple ranges for low, moderate and high were given in 13, it would be easier to tell the difference between a jewelry store and a grocery store!
-----Original Message----- From: Ford, Charles [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 9:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hazard classification Prolly not exactly what you are looking for, but take a look at Annex B of NFPA 72 . A lot of the lab work has been done. Methinks this is more PE, Performance based design, well beyond our ( at least mine) proscriptive approach. Regards C. Burton Ford NICET Certified IV NFPA Certified Fire Protection Specialist Cintas Fire Protection Inc 1038 Conshohocken Rd Conshohocken, PA 19428 Tel 610-233-1400 Fax 610-233-1401 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 9:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hazard classification Does it bother anyone that occupancy classifications are based on the quantity and combustibility of the contents, and the expected heat release rates, but there are no numbers given? It seems like "we" ought to be able to come up with something; Quantity in pounds of fuel per square foot. For Combustibility we could figure the entire fuel load is combustible, and the reaction is infinitely fast. Heat release rate could be based on oxygen consumption calorimetry (100% of the fuel converted to heat and the fire gets the perfect amount of O2 to do that). I have posed this question several times, hoping more qualified people will take it up. I am just not good at following up formally with any thoughts, but would like to see discussion here, and some collaboration. So far I think LH is ~4.5 lb/ft2, and heat release rate is ~750 kW/m2. That is mixing measuring systems I know. I think it is too important to throw our hands up and say things like-- "no way, too many variables", etc, but shouldn't "we" at least try? -----Original Message----- From: Craig Leadbetter [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hazard classification Dwight, I love the optimism that there is actually a spec to look at that says more than provide a system per code. No mention of commodities types on the plans and if I asked I have sure I would get the deer in the head lights look. This has been great discussion on this topic, it confirms that my area of the country is not the only one that provides more questions than answers. I believe that most systems we see are under analyzed from a fire suppression stand point. Most engineers appear to be so afraid to put anything in writing when it comes to fire protection that we generally get an "X" through the drawings with a note to provide per all codes and insurance requirements, and add any additional heads at no cost to the owner. I understand that not is not just in my area, I do spend time looking at other projects out for bid on Bid Clerk in other areas of the country in search of a good fire protection design to be able to model our specs and designs after. Much of what I see confirms the apparent fear of putting anything on paper. If someone is willing to share a what they feel is a good spec and maybe even a good set of sprinkler bid drawings that would always be appreciated. I understand that every situation is unique but there is value in a review of other designs to provide a new perspective that can be used for future projects. Craig Leadbetter Safeguard of Marquette PO Box 116 Marquette, MI 49855 (P) 906-475-9955 (F) 906-475-5474 (C) 906-362-5393 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dwight Havens Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:59 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Hazard classification Without looking at the specifics, I would put it at OH-2 sprinkler classification as a grocery store. Some of the merchandise might challenge this design (plastic toys, Duraflame (R) logs, charcoal lighter fluid, pool chemicals, etc.), but if the quantities are limited it should be within the capabilities of the system, given an adequate water supply. Dwight ________________________________ From: Craig Leadbetter <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:55 PM Subject: Hazard classification What is the hazard classification for a grocery store? This is not a Wal-Mart but a rather a 25,000 sqft local food store. Thanks Craig Leadbetter Safeguard of Marquette PO Box 116 Marquette, MI 49855 (P) 906-475-9955 (F) 906-475-5474 (C) 906-362-5393 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org This e-mail transmission contains information that is intended to be confidential and privileged. 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