Well, I was half-way through my epic novel when Charles' post was made. Perhaps I should have read it then. I could have saved a lot of my and your guys' time.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Ford, Charles <[email protected]> wrote: > Prolly not exactly what you are looking for, but take a look at Annex B of > NFPA 72 . A lot of the lab work has been done. Methinks this is more PE, > Performance based design, well beyond our ( at least mine) proscriptive > approach. > > Regards > > C. Burton Ford > NICET Certified IV > NFPA Certified Fire Protection Specialist > Cintas Fire Protection Inc > 1038 Conshohocken Rd > Conshohocken, PA 19428 > Tel 610-233-1400 > Fax 610-233-1401 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Casterline > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 9:19 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Hazard classification > > Does it bother anyone that occupancy classifications are based on the > quantity and combustibility of the contents, and the expected heat release > rates, but there are no numbers given? It seems like "we" ought to be able > to come up with something; Quantity in pounds of fuel per square foot. For > Combustibility we could figure the entire fuel load is combustible, and the > reaction is infinitely fast. Heat release rate could be based on oxygen > consumption calorimetry (100% of the fuel converted to heat and the fire > gets the perfect amount of O2 to do that). > I have posed this question several times, hoping more qualified people > will take it up. I am just not good at following up formally with any > thoughts, but would like to see discussion here, and some collaboration. So > far I think LH is ~4.5 lb/ft2, and heat release rate is ~750 kW/m2. That is > mixing measuring systems I know. I think it is too important to throw our > hands up and say things like-- "no way, too many variables", etc, but > shouldn't "we" > at least try? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Leadbetter [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 5:52 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Hazard classification > > Dwight, > > I love the optimism that there is actually a spec to look at that says > more than provide a system per code. No mention of commodities types on the > plans and if I asked I have sure I would get the deer in the head lights > look. > > This has been great discussion on this topic, it confirms that my area of > the country is not the only one that provides more questions than answers. > I believe that most systems we see are under analyzed from a fire > suppression stand point. Most engineers appear to be so afraid to put > anything in writing when it comes to fire protection that we generally get > an "X" > through the drawings with a note to provide per all codes and insurance > requirements, and add any additional heads at no cost to the owner. > > I understand that not is not just in my area, I do spend time looking at > other projects out for bid on Bid Clerk in other areas of the country in > search of a good fire protection design to be able to model our specs and > designs after. Much of what I see confirms the apparent fear of putting > anything on paper. > > If someone is willing to share a what they feel is a good spec and maybe > even a good set of sprinkler bid drawings that would always be appreciated. > I understand that every situation is unique but there is value in a > review of other designs to provide a new perspective that can be used for > future projects. > > > Craig Leadbetter > > Safeguard of Marquette > PO Box 116 > Marquette, MI 49855 > > > (P) 906-475-9955 > (F) 906-475-5474 > (C) 906-362-5393 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Dwight Havens > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:59 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Hazard classification > > Without looking at the specifics, I would put it at OH-2 sprinkler > classification as a grocery store. Some of the merchandise might challenge > this design (plastic toys, Duraflame (R) logs, charcoal lighter fluid, > pool chemicals, etc.), but if the quantities are limited it should be > within the capabilities of the system, given an adequate water supply. > > Dwight > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Craig Leadbetter <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:55 PM > Subject: Hazard classification > > > What is the hazard classification for a grocery store? This is not a > Wal-Mart but a rather a 25,000 sqft local food store. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Craig Leadbetter > > > > Safeguard of Marquette > > PO Box 116 > > Marquette, MI 49855 > > > > > > (P) 906-475-9955 > > (F) 906-475-5474 > > (C) 906-362-5393 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > This e-mail transmission contains information that is intended to be > confidential and privileged. If you receive this e-mail and you are not a > named addressee you are hereby notified that you are not authorized to > read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication without the > consent of the sender and that doing so is prohibited and may be unlawful. > Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the > message was misdirected. After replying, please delete and otherwise erase > it and any attachments from your computer system. Your assistance in > correcting this error is appreciated. > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
