That doesn't make them "Listed" backflow appliances, at least insofar as the laboratory in question doesn't even test them for their ability to prevent backflow. What we did with the annex was to clarify that if there is a question about the appropriate application of such an appliance, that classification at least represents a measure of verification that the appliance will not encumber the functionality of the sprinkler system. Back to what I said about verifying the actual pressure loss - that's the critical metric for these things, as far as a sprinkler system designer is concerned.
My opinion only, yada, yada, yada. SML -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] on behalf of Pete Schwab Sent: Fri 8/2/2013 5:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Valves on BFP Steve See the following from NFPA 13R A.5.2.14.5.1 Backflow preventers that are "UL Classified" meet the definition of listed in accordance with this standard. Pete Peter Schwab VP of Purchasing & Engineering Technologies Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. 222 Capitol Court Ocoee, Fl 34761 Mobile: (407) 468-8248 Direct: (407) 877-5570 Fax: (407) 656-8026 www.waynefire.com Celebrating over 34 years of life safety -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Valves on BFP Let's be careful about the term listed. If I understand correctly, UL doesn't list so much as classify backflows for fire protection. The only agency I know that maintains a list of tested and approved appliances for backflow prevention is the Foundation for Cross Connection Control and Hydraulic Research at The University of Southern California. That agency puts assemblies through a rigorous battery of short and long term (an on-going 1-year dynamic test, if I'm not mistaken) tests and then certifies and lists them as backflow preventers. UL does not test backflows for their performance in preventing backflow, only to test case burst strength and confirm that pressure loss characteristics match the manufacturer's data sheets upon opening and or closing of the clapper assemblies. In order to be classified (or approved) for fire, such valve sets have to use LISTED fire protection (i.e. indicating/slow close) control valves, and now the manufacturers are offering a choice of OS&Y or butterfly gate valves. But the entire assembly has to conform to the USC standards for testing and certification, and that's for listing and on an on-going basis such as annual tests and re-certifications as required by most water districts. Steve Leyton -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Silva Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 10:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Valves on BFP When you say BFP, is that valve, double check and valve? Which is the requirement for a listed BFP. Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Williams" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 8:22:33 AM Subject: Valves on BFP I'm on the road and don't have all my code stuff so I would appreciate a little help. I am looking at an existing riser with the following sequence of material: OS&Y, backflow preventer, Tee to FDC, then to 2 risers, each with control valve and alarm valve. There is no valve on the discharge of the BFP other than the aforementioned butterfly valves. Is that acceptable? It doesn't seems right but don't have any specific reference. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler .org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
