Todd, That is a legitimate concern. I remember a fire in a specialty paper factory in Holyoke, MA (back in the early '80's, in the baled scrap storage area. Fire was controlled by the sprinklers, but when they started "tearing" at the bails and breaking them up to get at the deep seated fire, it got away from the fire department and overwhelmed the sprinkle system. As I'm sure you remember from your early days with Mother Mutual, and you more recent work, those old mills typically had ordinary hazard pipe schedule systems which are terribly inefficient at delivering water. There is a way to put out deep seated fires. It involves slowing down, letting the sprinklers do their jobs, then bringing in multiple hose lines, piercing nozzles for the pile, class A foam, heavy equipment, and the discipline to take the pile apart slowly, removing the unburned portion of the pile and thoroughly soaking the burning portions of the pile then moving the outside, but only in small chunks. Patience is a virtue.
Dwight ________________________________ From: Todd - Work <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 9, 2013 7:09 PM Subject: Re: Trash Transfer Station My only concern was about the possibility of a deep seated fire such as in a pile of wood chips Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT www.fpdc.com On Aug 9, 2013, at 5:33 PM, Dwight Havens <[email protected]> wrote: > Todd, I had to think about this one awhile. When I was with the Fire > Marshals office in Phoenix, we (the City of Phoenix) built two waste > recycling, sorting and transfer stations. As I recall, the design density > was 0.25 gpm/ft2 over 2500 ft2. Looking at the Figures in NFPA 13, for piled > storage protection, that puts it smack in the middle of the Class IV curve > using high temperature sprinklers at 20 feet high storage. That pretty much > agrees with Mr. Sornsins recollections for his facility, and it is a design > that I was comfortable with. > > Dwight > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Mark A. Sornsin, P.E." <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, August 9, 2013 10:44 AM > Subject: RE: Trash Transfer Station > > > Despite recycling efforts, municipal waste (I think) remains largely paper > with wood and plastics interspersed. I would expect fires in transfers > station piles to behave similarly to baled waste paper fires, with added heat > release from the plastics. > > On a facility like this a number of years back, we married the requirements > of FM data Sheet 8-22 on baled waste paper storage with the requirements of > class IV solid pile storage (or maybe we used plastics?). Can't recall the > details, as they were left behind at a previous employer - but that was the > concept. > > > Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection Engineer > | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | > http://www.kfiengineers.com > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
