Ah. Right but, reference please? And if that's the case our shower still falls within the criteria.
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Pete Schwab <[email protected]> wrote: > Remember that the opening can only be 8'-0" max per the definition of a > compartment. > Pete > > Peter Schwab > VP of Purchasing & Engineering Technologies > > Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. > 222 Capitol Court > Ocoee, Fl 34761 > > Mobile: (407) 468-8248 > Direct: (407) 877-5570 > Fax: (407) 656-8026 > > www.waynefire.com > > > > Celebrating over 34 years of life safety > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of rongreenman . > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:49 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: showers included in bathroom area > > How about I have a 16' x 24' room. The room is divided along the 16' > dimension at 16' by an >8" horizontal obstruction (call it a beam, a > lintel or, like my wife, a little wall that doesn't reach the floor). So I > know have a ceiling area of 16' x 16' and another of 16' x 8'. At the floor > I have one area of 16' x 24'. No question that the horizontal member > defining the two ceiling areas is an obstruction to spray, but does it > effect heat collection (we'll get back to that other thread soon) > sufficiently in 13D to make a difference in response time relative to the > performance criteria of buying an extra 10 minutes of escape time before > reaching flashover in the room (compartment?) of origin? If I put a full > height wing of 2 ' on either end, effectively creating a 12' wide door > opening, does that make any difference? Can I only have a 3' door opening > to call that horizontal member a lintel? Does it require an actual closable > door? What about 4' > opening with a door like I have in my house? What about four 3' doorways > in my 16' wall with a 9+" full eight wall between and on either end of the > four "holes?" I've always used a reflected ceiling cut at 8" below the > ceiling. As a rule any down projections from the ceiling that I could see > the bottom of didn't exist when considering compartmentalization and any > that projected further than those eight inches were essentially full walls. > This conversation has muddied my mind regarding my simplistic > interpretation , but has not so far offered an, or a group of, alternative > ways to parse it out. > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 6:33 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > 13 (2013) 8.7.3.1.4 seems to support the lintel as a beam. > > > > 8.7.3.1.4 Sidewall spray sprinklers shall not be installed > back-to-back > > without being separated by a continuous lintel or soffit. > > > > Ron F > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > rongreenman . > > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:09 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: showers included in bathroom area > > > > Yes, I'm wrestling with that beam in, say, a living room. It's an > > obstruction, it's kind of a compartment, it kind of compartmentalizes > > the room, but...? So if it's a lintel, defined as a "beam" over a door > > it doesn't compartmentalize one section from another if there's no > > wall to either side, but it does if there is wall, no matter how > > short? If there's a shower door does that count? What about that > > living room beam with two feet of wall on either end of a sixteen foot > > free span, with the architect calling one side living and the other > > dining? I think tis can be pretty shaky stuff for literalists. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Roland Huggins > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > the same logic would say a beam in the middle of a room make it two > > > compartments. If you have a 8" obstruction on two sides of the > > > shower but no portion of either span is a wall, then it isn't a lintel. > > > > > > > > > Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering > > > American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves > Lives > > > Dallas, TX > > > http://www.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 2, 2013, at 11:32 AM, "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > If there is at least eight inches on both sides I'd argue that it > > > separates > > > > compartments. If not it's something else. Since it defines an > > > > overhead separation between compartments it is a portal from one > > > > to the other and therefore a doorway. If someone wants to argue > > > > otherwise I'm open to persuasion. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > > kl > > > er.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > Instructor > > Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College > > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > > > 253.680.7346 > > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > > > Member: > > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
