Sal, I believe years ago, for a very brief time, Potter-Roemer had a listed heat collector. I called them Dust Pans. Tony, for 30 years I was a designer for contractors and the last 10 I have worked for a Consulting Firm. I desperately miss the smell of warm cutting oil on smoke breaks out in the shop. Instead of heat collecting around a head, picture it moving across a head. Cecil, I think I see what you did there. No question or request for more details-- I simply thought you would appreciate the results I got from modeling my question of myself "which activates faster, a 155 SR or a 200 QR? if I used Dr. Floyd's excellent set-up instead of my own. I had gotten the same result using my own- 155 SR wins, but I had more confidence in the results using Jason's set-up.
> On Mar 23, 2014, at 9:38 AM, Tony Palmero <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks, Mr. Izzo. THAT's what I was askin'. It seems like maybe I DO > understand. I appreciate that. > > Tony > > > On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Tony Palmero <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Yo, Bradley! >> >> Thanks for the explaination. But to be honest, I didn't understand none >> of that. What I think I heard you say was that sprinklers at the ceiling >> is enuff to make the heads work right. Am i correct over here? >> >> I don't know how you have the time to design sprinkler systems AND do >> tests for sprinklers and jet engines. I can barely make it in time to >> the elementary school to run the lights after puttin away the threadin >> machine. Do yous guys need any fitters? I think I could really learn alot >> about something that has nothing to do with sprinklers over there and that >> would be a nice break. ya know? >> >> sencerely, >> >> Anthony S. Palmero >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Brad Casterline >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Tony, >>> >>> I spent some time figuring out why heat collectors did not work and came >>> up with: >>> They are installed horizontal, parallel to the floor and 'ceiling jet'. >>> If they were vertical, like a 'baffle', with the head ~6" below and from >>> center they would work, but we would call them heat director. >>> For years I imagined the heat rising, banking straight down off the roof >>> deck and when it finally filled the 12" distance to the head it would pop. >>> But if that is what is happening, the emergency is not in that area-- the >>> emergency is where the ~200 degree air is moving horizontally across the >>> head at 5 to 10 feet/second. We would need 2 'baffles', in a "+" shape, to >>> account for the direction the jet is moving when it gets to the >>> head/director. >>> >>> Brad Casterline, SET >>> >>> Warning: I am a good example of the 'bad' posters Greg mentioned. >>> >>>>> On Mar 23, 2014, at 7:44 AM, Greg McGahan <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Tony, >>>> >>>> He was being sincere and you are incorrect. The "heat collectors" can >>> delay >>>> the operation of a head from what I have learned not only on the forum >>> but >>>> also from other sources...The fire marshall is falling for one of the >>>> classic blunders.....the other being never start a land war in >>> Asia...(that >>>> was a joke) >>>> >>>> I am silent much of the time on this forum but you quickly get a feel >>> for >>>> who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking. I tend to >>>> listen to to RG. You seem sincere and curious, good for you. I would be >>>> careful who I listen to. >>>> >>>> Just my two cents worth...... >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Greg McGahan >>>> Living Water Fire Protection, LLC <http://www.livingwaterfp.com> >>>> 1160 McKenzie Road >>>> Cantonment, FL 32533 >>>> 850-937-1850 >>>> fax 850-937-1852 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:23 PM, Tony Palmero <[email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dr. Greenman, >>>>> >>>>> I had a fire marshal make me put dem on sprinklers before. Since I >>> don't >>>>> really know much about fire dynamicks (isn't dat what yous guys call >>> it?), >>>>> I always thought the pie pans made hot air go to the head faster. >>>>> >>>>> Tony Palmero >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:04 PM, Steve Leyton >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Okay, giant oops there. Inside joke, meant to send that to Ron only. >>> Memo >>>>>> to self - don't use phone for email. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>> From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date:03/22/2014 9:01 PM (GMT-08:00) >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: RE: Quick response >>>>>> >>>>>> What kinda fuckstick dreamed THAT shit up? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>> From: "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date:03/22/2014 8:57 PM (GMT-08:00) >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: Quick response >>>>>> >>>>>> I was thinking Tony. So-called "heat collectors" have been known to >>> slow >>>>>> the response of sprinkler heads by forming an aerodynamic phenomena >>>>> whereby >>>>>> the head is actually protected from the heat reaching it due to a >>> pocket >>>>>> stagnant air that surrounds the head and deflects much of the >>> convected >>>>>> heat. perhaps putting pie pans over the heads would help. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Tony Palmero < >>> [email protected] >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, Dr Greenman! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, the lights are hot. Sitting in that stupid chair makes me >>> sweat a >>>>>>> lot. I have to be careful not to drip on the other parents below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Someday it would be great to try running lights in Hollywood! But >>> for >>>>>> now, >>>>>>> it'll have to be only at Spring Concerts at night and hanging >>> sprinkler >>>>>>> pipe during the day. Do the Hollywood studios have fitters on the >>>>>> payroll? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tony Palmero >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 9:37 PM, rongreenman . < >>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How about an empirical answer. If these lights are similar to those >>>>>> used >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> movie production the answer is yes. Has happened a lot. I was only >>>>>>> involved >>>>>>>> with one movie, but I was involved because they decided they needed >>> a >>>>>>>> sprinkler guy because they'd had several discharges in the past and >>>>> the >>>>>>>> building they were using for a sound stage had relatively (about >>> 30') >>>>>>>> ceilings. They initially hired me to turn the system off every day >>> at >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> beginning of work and come back to turn it on at night. Obviously >>>>> this >>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> not a solution, which the lead production guy understood and took my >>>>>>> advice >>>>>>>> to change the heads to high temps while they were using the building >>>>>> and >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> return and make them standard temp when filming was done. Numbers? >>>>>> Don't >>>>>>>> know. The ones you use must be hot or you wouldn't be asking. I'd >>>>> talk >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the maintenance guys from the school and ask if they've ever had a >>>>>>>> problem, and if so, how they've solved it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Fire Protection Services < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes Brad I will >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2014, at 6:22 PM, Brad Casterline < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> True Jamie and Tony that's why I said I am wrong. I tend to >>>>>>> over-think >>>>>>>>> things. Something to consider though is it is not just QR you have >>>>> to >>>>>>>> worry >>>>>>>>> about- i would love to do some actual tests but I believe a 155 SR >>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> activate quicker than a 200 QR, under the same conditions. Chris, >>>>>> could >>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>>> your instructor about that? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Jamie Seidl <[email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There are rules for heat sources, ie 250w lights, sky lights >>>>>> ect... >>>>>>>> Sun >>>>>>>>> light exposure requires an increase in temperature just as >>>>> proximity >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> hear sources. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2014, at 6:52 PM, Tony Palmero < >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Brad, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WTF? What does a skylight have to do with it if the light >>>>> would >>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>>>>>> touching the sprinkler to set it off? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a rule in NFPA 13 for this kind of stuff? I just want >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> pipe >>>>>>>>>>>> in the air and do it right. Theoretically speakin'. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Tony >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Brad Casterline < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We do have to use higher temp heads in skylights though so I >>>>> am >>>>>>>> wrong! >>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't shine it on the sprinklers or the kids too long at a >>>>> time! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Brad Casterline < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the light would have to be almost touching the >>>>> element >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> set it >>>>>>>>>>>>> off (conduction). Response Time Index is a measure of the temp >>>>>> AND >>>>>>>>> velocity >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the air (convection). The energy of the light itself drops >>>>>>> like a >>>>>>>>> rock >>>>>>>>>>>>> (^4) with distance from the source. (the radiative component). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I could be wrong Tony, and often am :). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Tony Palmero < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if lights could send enough heat to a >>>>> element >>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>>> it go >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off. I run the spotlight at school plays at my kid's school >>>>>> and >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinkin' about it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You guys on the forum are great. I don't think any of this >>>>>>> stuff >>>>>>>>>>>>> matters >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to me putting pipe in the air, but it is fascinating. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tony Palmero >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Brad Casterline < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It depends on how fast the heated air is moving across it, >>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on fire size and ceiling height. But this is true for >>>>>> standard >>>>>>>>> response >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also. May I ask why you ask? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 22, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Tony Palmero < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How quick is a qwik resp sprinler? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>>>>> Instructor >>>>>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Member: >>>>>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>>>> Bacon, >>>>>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. >>>>> Kettering, >>>>>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ron Greenman >>>>>> Instructor >>>>>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>>>>> Bates Technical College >>>>>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>>>>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>>>>> >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>>>>> >>>>>> 253.680.7346 >>>>>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>>>>> >>>>>> Member: >>>>>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>>>>> >>>>>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>>>> Bacon, >>>>>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>>>>> >>>>>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, >>>>>> inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
